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Switch to Forum Live View German political rejuvenation: something to learn from?
2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 5:03AM #1
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

In German state elections, a new party is nowadays entering state parliaments - a new political voice getting attention. It is the "Pirate Party", a party that stands for "digital freedom" in the first place, has its roots in the internet, consists of sympathisers of WikiLeaks and opposes political moves such as the US "Sopa" (Stop Online Piracy Act), or the multinational ACTA (Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement).


The movement is not particular to Germany. The party as an organisation in Europe has its roots in Sweden (Rick Valkvinge as a name to be mentioned), and of course there is 'Anonymous' and there is 'WikiLeaks', which can be seen as related albeit non-parliamentary political forces.


But Germany is the country in which they are first making a noticeable political contribution. Which reminds of the Green party. They, too, in Germany first made a noticeable political contribution. Germany is the only larger nation in which environmentalists have been part of government (1998-2005), and even conservatives and libertarians in Germany today are more ecology-minded than left-wing parties in other countries; e.g., it is the conservative-libertarian government of Angela Merkel that said the final Goodbye to nuclear power in Germany. The Greens are considered political establishment, which adds to the attractiveness of the Pirate Party as an alternative...


So, what is it about the German political institutions that seem to make possible this rejuvenation and representation of acutely hot topics in its political institutions?


And symetrically, what is it about other big nations' political institutions that seems to structurally preclude such rejuvenation & representation?


www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-04/D9TTGFAG...

tl;dr
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 9:49AM #2
vra
Posts: 6,395

Char, first of all thanks for your post as I think it's excellent along with what you asked at the end.


Here in the States, too many are still fighting the Civil War, and we can't even reach a consensus on which day of the week it is.  Secondly, we are notorious here for our inability or unwillingness to think long term, and long plans of action tend to easily get forgotten and derailed.  Thirdly, greed and materialism has become some of our most dominant forces, so "what's in it for me?" is now the mantra. 


We, of course, are not the only ones to have these problems, but I think the underlying factor in this all was well predicted by Desmond Morris, anthropologist and author of "The Naked Ape" and several other books, who said around 1970 that Americans don't seem to know when to stop competing against each other and that this would very much come to hurt us in the future-- a nation seriously divided-- and we are that.


On this "pleasant" note, I wish all here a happy Easter, Passover, or whatever turns you on.  I'll be gone for a week from the political/economic debates, but some may see me over at "Discuss Judaism"-- it's a week whereas I retreat from the "materialistic".       

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 4:34PM #3
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Chari


Different form of government.............


 

discuss catholicism
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 4:47PM #4
farragut
Posts: 3,939

I still harbor this quaint idea that ownership of intellectual property deserves some respect. I shudder to think of the consequences if one's ownership fails the moment something is published.


But, what do I know? I'm not that creative.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 11:21AM #5
Ebon
Posts: 10,122

Apr 6, 2012 -- 4:47PM, farragut wrote:

I still harbor this quaint idea that ownership of intellectual property deserves some respect. I shudder to think of the consequences if one's ownership fails the moment something is published.


But, what do I know? I'm not that creative.



Fair enough but how long does that last? We're up to, what, seventy years now? And what happens when the copyright owner won't release the material? I'm a comic book fan and I'll freely admit that I've downloaded stacks of old or classic comics for the simple reason that the copyright holder won't release them. Marvelman/Miracleman, one of comics legend Alan Moore's (the guy who wrote Watchmen and V For Vendetta) best works was a collection I had to download because the rights were split between three parties who all hated each other. Happily, that was eventually resolved and the collected books of the series sit proudly on my bookshelves but it illustrates my point. There are a lot of situations where fans of the work would love to buy shiny remastered official releases but, for various reasons, the material never gets released.


For a very long time, fans of old video games or roleplay games were in the same boat; forced to download not because they were cheap or wanted to break the law but because they had a genuine love for the material and it simply wasn't available any other way. In those two cases, the situation is very slowly improving now that digitial distribution is finally being taken seriously.


I also have some sympathy for the Pirate Party because of the ridiculously excessive damages frequently awarded in copyright infringement cases.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 11:33AM #6
farragut
Posts: 3,939

There are probably lots of things that I'd like to have that do not belong to me. But I do not intend to become a thief.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 11:38AM #7
Ebon
Posts: 10,122

Apr 7, 2012 -- 11:33AM, farragut wrote:

There are probably lots of things that I'd like to have that do not belong to me. But I do not intend to become a thief.



For it to be theft, the original owner must be deprived of it. Producing a duplicate is copyright infringement, not theft.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 12:55PM #8
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,776

Apr 6, 2012 -- 4:34PM, jane2 wrote:


Chari


Different form of government.............


 




Yes it is a different form of government and it works. In the USA ours is falling apart. Fast. And we are losing our form of government to corrupt politicians and big business like the koch brothers. And once see what is going on in Michigan. Democracy is disappearing there completely. No joke, not an exaggeration.


It is becoming a dictatorship. It is getting frightening over here.


Republicans are working very hard to deny people the right to vote. All over the United States. And we will lose it if we do not fight, (and I mean through legal means)  to stop them.


Ours did work, at least fairly well. Certainly enough to want to keep it. But what it is fast becoming is dangerous to democracy.



A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2012 - 1:12PM #9
farragut
Posts: 3,939

"For it to be theft, the original owner must be deprived of it. Producing a duplicate is copyright infringement, not theft"


You are wrong, Ebon.


The unauthorized cloning of my work, my idea, my performance, my oeuvre is by definition theft. When you distribute such copies to the market, you destroy the value of my work. Sould you invalidate the copyright, you would reduce creativity to a parttime activity. The writers, composers, etc, would first have to make a living.


Yeah,  py cod,it's theft.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 08, 2012 - 10:25AM #10
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

Apr 6, 2012 -- 4:47PM, farragut wrote:


I still harbor this quaint idea that ownership of intellectual property deserves some respect. I shudder to think of the consequences if one's ownership fails the moment something is published.


But, what do I know? I'm not that creative.



The creative ones tend to be overall more flexible over this, as far as I could tell. It is the non-creative rights owners that make all the fuss, in general. Hollywood production companies for instance, to name a more powerful one.


In my own discipline, there is an authors' boycott going on against publishers of scientific journals who don't serve science but only want to make money. See, e.g., here: www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2012/02/27/...


These things need to be re-defined and re-negotiated, I think. Of course, a genius should benefit from his work and be able to make a good living. But to sell it like a car is something quite different. The 'ownership laws' of yesterday don't work well in the realm of ideas and art.

tl;dr
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