Climate Change is The Problem getting the most Attention and which is becoming more and more obvious ... But it is not happening in isolation from ALL the OTHER Difficulties we have brought upon ourselves and all the other Species as well ...

LOTS of very well-intended but naive Folks think we can fudge our Way OUT of the coming Eco-Catastrophes by using more of the funny twisty Light Bulbs, recycling more faithfully, growing some Veggies in the Backyard and biking more/driving less ... Those are ALL good Things to do, but they fail to address our POPULATION Problem and all of the Ecological Effects of THAT ... There are simply too many of us no matter HOW carefully we learn to live ...

Apr 6, 2012 -- 10:05AM, Ebon wrote:

Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:33PM, teilhard wrote:

Global Climate Change is not "The Problem" ... It is ONE of the more obvious Indications that there are too MANY of us relentlessly altering Global EcoSystems EVERYWHERE ...

True but climate change is the most pressing problem currently. It's the one we need to deal with either first or in conjunction with the others.

There will BE no Solution until AFTER The Crash, after which re-Adaptation to a Globally Changed Planet will be our only Hope ... My Hunch is that Indigenous Peoples who STILL know how to Live Off The Land, make Things, gather and harvest Foods locally opportunistically, will have the BEST Chance ... 

Sadly, I suspect you're right. Too many people have too much vested in the current state of affairs to admit the possibility of change before some catastrophe.

I don't think we're going ...

Putting a Colony on The Moon and then on Mars has I think now been relegated to Science Fantasy ...  As the global Economies increasingly become unstable and "tank," we're not going to have the political Will for such Adventures ...

Apr 6, 2012 -- 10:24AM, Ebon wrote:

Apr 6, 2012 -- 10:12AM, teilhard wrote:

Climate Change is The Problem getting the most Attention and which is becoming more and more obvious ... But it is not happening in isolation from ALL the OTHER Difficulties we have brought upon ourselves and all the other Species as well ...

LOTS of very well-intended but naive Folks think we can fudge our Way OUT of the coming Eco-Catastrophes by using more of the funny twisty Light Bulbs, recycling more faithfully, growing some Veggies in the Backyard and biking more/driving less ... Those are ALL good Things to do, but they fail to address our POPULATION Problem and all of the Ecological Effects of THAT ... There are simply too many of us no matter HOW carefully we learn to live ...

As I said on the thread about the Dugars, runaway population growth does nobody any favours. I spitballed a few ideas of how to start fixing it there. Beyond that, we need to get off this rock and into the infinity of space.

He said that, as humans, we have a built-in mechanism that encourages both egocentrism ("what's in it for me?") and ethnocentrism (group affiliation and loyalty, which also includes nationalism/patriotism), whereas self and group interests trump any kind of global affiliation or global identity.  Because of this, trying to get international cooperation is often very hard to do, but it becomes significantly more difficult if it involves sacrifice either by the individual or the country. 

He called it the "greed factor", and he felt that this makes any consensus and willingness to sacrifice on an international scale very difficult, and he's not optimistic it can be done in terms of population growth and resource depletion.  Even though these are somewhat variable due to different factors, the evidence of our destroying much of Planet Earth is rather obvious if one looks at world history over the long haul.

This may be so in the present state of human consciousness. But humans today are not "all they can be".

The best humans are constantly showing  how much more a human being can be. Maybe future societies of humans will learn to apply the teachings of the ages and become less egocentric.

Apr 6, 2012 -- 10:53AM, arielg wrote:

He said that, as humans, we have a built-in mechanism that encourages both egocentrism ("what's in it for me?") and ethnocentrism (group affiliation and loyalty, which also includes nationalism/patriotism), whereas self and group interests trump any kind of global affiliation or global identity.  Because of this, trying to get international cooperation is often very hard to do, but it becomes significantly more difficult if it involves sacrifice either by the individual or the country. 

He called it the "greed factor", and he felt that this makes any consensus and willingness to sacrifice on an international scale very difficult, and he's not optimistic it can be done in terms of population growth and resource depletion.  Even though these are somewhat variable due to different factors, the evidence of our destroying much of Planet Earth is rather obvious if one looks at world history over the long haul.

This may be so in the present state of human consciousness. But humans today are not "all they can be".

The best humans are constantly showing  how much more a human being can be. Maybe future societies of humans will learn to apply the teachings of the ages and become less egocentric.

I certainly hope so.

Apr 6, 2012 -- 6:41PM, Marcion wrote:

Right. Do you remember the Ahole who wrote the book, The Great Depression of the 1990's.

The 90's turned out to be economic boomtimes. So much for self appointed prophets.

Way to go Marcion. I remember the great "stew" about the Japanese buying some of Rockefeller Center in NYC. It's still Rockefeller Center and we can still dine at the Rainbow Room there.