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Switch to Forum Live View Redneck A-holes with guns
2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 3:17PM #401
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 17, 2012 -- 3:07PM, arielg wrote:


May 17, 2012 -- 2:52PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


May 17, 2012 -- 1:00PM, Yavanna wrote:


May 17, 2012 -- 1:26AM, solfeggio wrote:


Why do some posters persist in throwing out nonsequiters as if they were pearls of wisdom? ( I guess it is just too much fun to deride any and all substantive points that some of us make.)


Is it such a joke to try to talk about the rights of sentient beings?


 




Not at all! Let's stop discussing animals and discuss humans! Then we'll finally be discussing sentient beings.




Animals are sentient. They value their own lives, can feel pain and experience terror. Therefore, there are unavoidable moral considerations that come into play when we choose to raise them as livestock or hunt them.


However, they are not sapient.


And, I think, the vegan/animal rights mentality takes the aforementioned moral considerations way too far, by trying to suggest animals should have the same moral consideration as human beings. 


Using that reasoning, plants should have the same level of moral consideration as animals.


That's not to say we should not also have moral consideration toward plants. But obviously, it does not bear the same weight as that toward animals, which in turn, should not bear the same weight as that toward human beings. 


The AR/vegan mentality fails to see the fundamental difference in kind, upon which the weight of moral consideration rests. Therefore, it can not, or refuses to, recognize the nonsensical irrationality of, for example, giving a horse or a pig "personhood" in a court of law -- or suggesting that hunting is "murder."




That was a good, thoughtful post. So I will think about it and  answer later.


 


Okay, that covers good old Adolf and the gang. What about Joseph Stalin? Can we drag him into this too?


Yes, we can. It is the same mentality of aggression and the attempt to impose certain outcomes by force. Shooting someone, person or animal, or going to war are all the outcomes  of aggression.







I agree with you in principle. But I don't agree with the specific instance of equating animals with humans, or as "someone."


Be that as it may, I've repeatedly said, mass meat production, as we increasingly know it today, fails on three counts -- environmental, public health and morals/ethics. 


Hunting, while sound in general principle, also fails in many specific instances of practice. Which I've also said. 


For me, the questions are not "what", but rather, "how."


And becuase such a high percentage of of population is now urban/suburban -- and removed from pastoral agriculture or ecological hunting, vegitarianism might well be the best long-tem choice for the greater mass of the urban/suburban population.


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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 3:26PM #402
headhuntersix
Posts: 63

May 16, 2012 -- 6:45PM, solfeggio wrote:


And, I repeat what I said earlier, which is that if there are so many deer that they are getting out of hand (probably because hunters killed off all the natural predators), then why aren't the scientists trying to work out some sort of birth control to keep them from multiplying?


Humans do not need to eat deer.  We are not carnivorous animals, and we always have a choice.


 




On the first point, how are you going to distribute the contraceptive effectively, and who is going to pay for this hare-brained scheme?


On the second point, you are correct.  We are in fact omnivores, not carnivores.  There's plenty of space for broccoli next to the steak.

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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 3:27PM #403
Stardove
Posts: 14,595

How about some current news about wolves?  Surprised


$2,500 reward offered in investigation of possible wolf kill in northeast Oregon

Authorities are now offering a reward of up to $2,500 for information that helps catch whoever killed a an animal believed to be a wolf found in mid-March in northeast Oregon.

The Humane Society of the United States and The Humane Society Wildlife Land Trust are offering the reward.

More at link.


Endangered wolf needs protection instead of bullets

For eons, gray wolves roamed the northern stretches of the United States. When Europeans settled here, they systematically hunted them down until the species was perilously close to extinction. Like the grizzly bear that adorns our state flag, gray wolves were erased from every corner of California.

In 1974, the gray wolf was added to the Endangered Species List. In 1995, the gray wolf was reintroduced to the western United States in an effort to give the animals a chance to live in their former habitats.

Since then, the gray wolf has made a remarkable comeback. Experts estimate that between 1,700 and 3,000 wolves now live in the western United States. They are beginning to thrive again.

But they still have a long way to go. Even if 3,000 wolves live in the entirety of the western states, they are a vanished species, struggling to survive in a world of cattle, sheep and horse ranches.

More at link.

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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 3:31PM #404
headhuntersix
Posts: 63

May 17, 2012 -- 1:26AM, solfeggio wrote:


   I guess it is just too much fun to deride any and all substantive points that some of us make. 




As soon as you make one, I'll be sure to try that.  I'll let you know how much fun it turns out to be.

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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 3:33PM #405
headhuntersix
Posts: 63

May 17, 2012 -- 11:30AM, arielg wrote:



 they become  career criminals, hunters or  join the military.




Surely there must be something in the TOS about characterizing other members as sociopaths, psychopaths, or whatever.

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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 3:39PM #406
headhuntersix
Posts: 63

May 17, 2012 -- 2:52PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


 Therefore, it can not, or refuses to, recognize the nonsensical irrationality of, for example, giving a horse or a pig "personhood" in a court of law -- or suggesting that hunting is "murder."




I'm not normally a fan of the daily show, but if you haven't seen "seaworld of pain," google it, you'll pee your pants.

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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 3:40PM #407
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 17, 2012 -- 3:27PM, Stardove wrote:


How about some current news about wolves? 


$2,500 reward offered in investigation of possible wolf kill in northeast Oregon

Authorities are now offering a reward of up to $2,500 for information that helps catch whoever killed a an animal believed to be a wolf found in mid-March in northeast Oregon.

The Humane Society of the United States and The Humane Society Wildlife Land Trust are offering the reward.

More at link.


Endangered wolf needs protection instead of bullets

For eons, gray wolves roamed the northern stretches of the United States. When Europeans settled here, they systematically hunted them down until the species was perilously close to extinction. Like the grizzly bear that adorns our state flag, gray wolves were erased from every corner of California.

In 1974, the gray wolf was added to the Endangered Species List. In 1995, the gray wolf was reintroduced to the western United States in an effort to give the animals a chance to live in their former habitats.

Since then, the gray wolf has made a remarkable comeback. Experts estimate that between 1,700 and 3,000 wolves now live in the western United States. They are beginning to thrive again.

But they still have a long way to go. Even if 3,000 wolves live in the entirety of the western states, they are a vanished species, struggling to survive in a world of cattle, sheep and horse ranches.

More at link.





First, harldy news.


Secondly, horribly biased mis-information.


Third, and excuse my French, but when are these jackasses going to realize ... people live out here too!

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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 3:45PM #408
headhuntersix
Posts: 63

May 17, 2012 -- 3:27PM, Stardove wrote:


How about some current news about wolves?  Surprised



 


In the real world, neither a reward offered by the humane society (PETA-light) nor an article in the opinion pages of the San Fransisco Chronicle really qualify as "news."  Interesting reading, though.

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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 3:51PM #409
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 17, 2012 -- 3:39PM, headhuntersix wrote:


May 17, 2012 -- 2:52PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


 Therefore, it can not, or refuses to, recognize the nonsensical irrationality of, for example, giving a horse or a pig "personhood" in a court of law -- or suggesting that hunting is "murder."




I'm not normally a fan of the daily show, but if you haven't seen "seaworld of pain," google it, you'll pee your pants.




"So, Orcas are like the field n***ers, and dogs and cats are like the house n***ers."  ROFLMFAO!

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2 years ago  ::  May 17, 2012 - 5:06PM #410
Stardove
Posts: 14,595

Google News search came up with the current "news" about wolves I linked.  Tongue Out


This topic has strayed so much from from OP I thought we might get back to discussing the wolves!

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Anger cannot occur unless you believe that you have been attacked, that your attack is justified in return, and that you are in no way responsible for it. ACIM

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