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Switch to Forum Live View Redneck A-holes with guns
3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 3:48PM #261
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 23, 2012 -- 3:37PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 2:31PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


What name calling? I've called your arguments and ideas to task for what they are. You are the one who has resorted to personal attacks, calling people idiots and fools, simply because they won't agree with your ideology.


I'm not interested in idealogy, or further sermons. I would love some fact-based perspectives and ideas.




That is what you refuse to "get".   His is a fundamentally different philosophy than your's.  Why don't YOU consider HIS philosophy and provide some perspectives and ideas from it, same as what you are demanding that he do, for you.  Oh, it's not your philosophy so you can't argue from it?  Well, same is true for arielg and anyone else who opposes hunting for ethical reasons....so you must either move on or keep repeating yourself, which at some point, I would think would become tiresome.  Apparently, repeating yourself hasn't become tiresome yet.   Just because you advocate the status quo and live by conservative tradition, doesn't mean the status quo or conservative tradition is truth.


Apr 23, 2012 -- 2:31PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


You seem completely unable to admit you're in over your head here.  But as I said, I'm more than happy to keep giving you enough rope, if you wish to proceed. 




And this isn't a form of name-calling.  You came on this thread with insults and condescension, so adequately demonstrated by the above sentence toward those who are not awed by self-proclaimed marksmanship or your self-proclaimed, expert knowledge in a hobby you've chosen for yourself.




Learn to discuss things like an adult. Calling out blovating for what it is, is not the same as leveling personal insults, and calling names. I won't suffer stupid ideas. There's no reason I should, especially on a subject and issue I'm so close to, and know so much about.


I know the philosophy differs from mine. I don't take issue with that.


But, there has yet to be an intelligent, fact-based argument explaining why that philisophy should be applied.


Just having a different idea does not give it merit, by the mere virtue of being different. 


One can personally oppose hunting for ethical reasons all day long. But trying to argue that nobody else should be able hunt either -- is a whole other animal (no pun intended.)



 



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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 4:14PM #262
rabello
Posts: 22,029

Apr 23, 2012 -- 3:48PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Learn to discuss things like an adult.




Actually, I believe that admonition applies to you.  Condescension is not convincing.  And calling someone else's well-formed philosophy "stupid ideas" is just proof of the lesson you need to "learn".  What's your philosophy for entrapping and killing animals for entertainment, anyway, besides the claim that "man" is the "apex predator". You and your fellow hunters certainly do not possess biological adaptations that make you the "apex predator"; instead you have to hide behind bushes or trap an unsuspecting animal to hold it until you get around to killing it.  You don't do it with your bare hands, or your teeth, or your braun, now do you?  


What you take for granted as "adult" is just what you personally take for granted.


Apr 23, 2012 -- 3:48PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


I know the philosophy differs from mine. I don't take issue with that.


But, there has yet to be an intelligent, fact-based argument explaining why that philisophy should be applied.


Just having a different idea does not give it merit, by the mere virtue of being different. 


One can personally oppose hunting for ethical reasons all day long. But trying to argue that nobody else should be able hunt either -- is a whole other animal (no pun intended.)




What are you so worried about that it causes such bitter defensiveness?   Nobody's going to take your form of entertainment away from you or your fellow hunters, and you know it.  People who think it is wrong are allowed to at least say so, even though they can't stop it, wouldn't you agree?   I guess not.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 4:25PM #263
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 23, 2012 -- 4:14PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 3:48PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Learn to discuss things like an adult.




Actually, I believe that admonition applies to you.  Condescension is not convincing.  And calling someone else's well-formed philosophy "stupid ideas" is just proof of the lesson you need to "learn".  What's your philosophy for entrapping and killing animals for entertainment, anyway, besides the claim that "man" is the "apex predator". You and your fellow hunters certainly do not possess biological adaptations that make you the "apex predator"; instead you have to hide behind bushes or trap an unsuspecting animal to hold it until you get around to killing it.  You don't do it with your bare hands, or your teeth, or your braun, now do you?  


What you take for granted as "adult" is just what you personally take for granted.


Apr 23, 2012 -- 3:48PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


I know the philosophy differs from mine. I don't take issue with that.


But, there has yet to be an intelligent, fact-based argument explaining why that philisophy should be applied.


Just having a different idea does not give it merit, by the mere virtue of being different. 


One can personally oppose hunting for ethical reasons all day long. But trying to argue that nobody else should be able hunt either -- is a whole other animal (no pun intended.)




What are you so worried about that it causes such bitter defensiveness?   Nobody's going to take your form of entertainment away from you or your fellow hunters, and you know it.  People who think it is wrong are allowed to at least say so, even though they can't stop it, wouldn't you agree?   I guess not.




Thank you, once again, for proving my point.


Also, I've never said people can't oppose hunting in general, and the hunting of wolves in the Greater Yellowstone area in particular. By all means, speak out.


But, when you meet somebody -- such as me -- who actually lives here, and knows the issue, then  you have got to be prepared to back it up. 


Simply resorting to strawmen about pathological killing for entertainment doesn't cut it. 


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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 5:38PM #264
rabello
Posts: 22,029

Apr 23, 2012 -- 4:25PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Also, I've never said people can't oppose hunting in general, and the hunting of wolves in the Greater Yellowstone area in particular. By all means, speak out.


But, when you meet somebody -- such as me -- who actually lives here, and knows the issue, then  you have got to be prepared to back it up. 


Simply resorting to strawmen about pathological killing for entertainment doesn't cut it. 





That's not a strawman.   It doesn't "cut it" for you, because you see nothing wrong with it.  Those who think that unnecessarily killing an animal for entertainment, or killing an animal for food that one doesn't need is immoral is enough of a reason to "cut it". 


I grew up in area where a lot of people took their "right" to kill animals as a god-given right, and went out of their way to show off the creatures they killed while hiding behind bushes.  Even dated a few of them, given where I am from.  I've heard all the same assertions about the righteousness of hunting that you bring to this forum, and I reject them, flat out.  What hunters never do is address the morality or lack of it as it pertains to their god-given "right" to kill animals for entertainment.   They just clobber those who question their antics.  And you are right, hunters ARE their worst enemies.   People are against hunting because they think it's wrong, period.   That is more than enough to "cut it".

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 6:23PM #265
solfeggio
Posts: 9,466

arielg -


I was very much moved by the beautiful little film you so generously shared with us here. 


That question, 'Who am I?" has been one I've pondered over the years.  I can even remember a time when I was about twelve, staring into a mirror, and wondering if the reflection was the real me.  But, I suppose we've all done that at one time or another, so it's nothing special.


As the narration in the film points out, though, there is really no 'I' at all, since we are all part of the wider universe, and the truth of who we are simply comes down to that in the end.


Do the nonhuman animals accept with serenity the fact that they are part of nature?  I have no doubt that they do.


And, as I've grown older and more thoughtful, I believe that the growing things have an awareness as well, which is why I find myself more and more reluctant to cut a branch from a tree or even to pull weeds.


As we mature and try to understand our place in the world, I think we do develop a sense of consideration for others, and a sincere desire to be a kinder person.  And you have this desire to do good deeds simply for the joy of it.


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 6:32PM #266
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 23, 2012 -- 5:38PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 4:25PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Also, I've never said people can't oppose hunting in general, and the hunting of wolves in the Greater Yellowstone area in particular. By all means, speak out.


But, when you meet somebody -- such as me -- who actually lives here, and knows the issue, then  you have got to be prepared to back it up. 


Simply resorting to strawmen about pathological killing for entertainment doesn't cut it. 





That's not a strawman.   It doesn't "cut it" for you, because you see nothing wrong with it.  Those who think that unnecessarily killing an animal for entertainment, or killing an animal for food that one doesn't need is immoral is enough of a reason to "cut it". 


I grew up in area where a lot of people took their "right" to kill animals as a god-given right, and went out of their way to show off the creatures they killed while hiding behind bushes.  Even dated a few of them, given where I am from.  I've heard all the same assertions about the righteousness of hunting that you bring to this forum, and I reject them, flat out.  What hunters never do is address the morality or lack of it as it pertains to their god-given "right" to kill animals for entertainment.   They just clobber those who question their antics.  And you are right, hunters ARE their worst enemies.   People are against hunting because they think it's wrong, period.   That is more than enough to "cut it".




Yes. You dislike hunting, and have some very negative stereotypes and biases about it, perhaps couched in some bad personal experiences. You've made that abundantly clear.


But, you've yet to show any decent knowledge of it, or the issue of wolf reintroduction and managmnent.  

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 6:37PM #267
solfeggio
Posts: 9,466

Rabello -


I was curious about just how many Americans are hunters, and the answers were easy enough to find:


www.fws.gov/hunting/huntstat.html


What is telling here is the way that the Wildlife Service describes the 12 million hunters as having 'enjoyed' what they were doing. 


In other words, going out and deliberately taking the life - for fun - of an animal that poses no danger to you and whose flesh you really do not need to keep you from starvation, is thought of as not just a satisfactory experience, but a highly pleasurable one as well.


On the other hand, 12 million people out of a population of over 300 million means that the hunters are (relatively) few in number, which is good news.


Also, it is true that at least some of those people who started out as hunters, perhaps after being taken out by their father when young, would become disgusted with the whole business and give it up later on.


I've never thought of hunting as a harmless cultural tradition, but rather as a glorification of killing.  Instead of teaching children to kill, parents should instead be teaching them compassion, mercy and living in harmony with nature.


 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 6:42PM #268
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 23, 2012 -- 6:37PM, solfeggio wrote:


Rabello -


I was curious about just how many Americans are hunters, and the answers were easy enough to find:


www.fws.gov/hunting/huntstat.html


What is telling here is the way that the Wildlife Service describes the 12 million hunters as having 'enjoyed' what they were doing. 


In other words, going out and deliberately taking the life - for fun - of an animal that poses no danger to you and whose flesh you really do not need to keep you from starvation, is thought of as not just a satisfactory experience, but a highly pleasurable one as well.


On the other hand, 12 million people out of a population of over 300 million means that the hunters are (relatively) few in number, which is good news.


Also, it is true that at least some of those people who started out as hunters, perhaps after being taken out by their father when young, would become disgusted with the whole business and give it up later on.


I've never thought of hunting as a harmless cultural tradition, but rather as a glorification of killing.  Instead of teaching children to kill, parents should instead be teaching them compassion, mercy and living in harmony with nature.


 




"In harmony with nature."


I love that statement.


Solf, in nature, things stalk, kill and eat one another all the time. Death and killing are woven deeply into nature.


On the other hand, compassion is worse than useless for wild animals. 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 6:53PM #269
solfeggio
Posts: 9,466

You have no compassion for wild animals?  You simply sum up the whole of nature as nothing more than kill or be killed? 


There's more to nature than that, as you are well aware.  And you really are saying that using the lame old excuse of carnivores killing their prey is some sort of raison d'etre for you to kill the prey as well?


Far-fetched, mouse.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 10:08AM #270
arielg
Posts: 9,116

What is telling here is the way that the Wildlife Service describes the 12 million hunters as having 'enjoyed' what they were doing.


In other words, going out and deliberately taking the life - for fun - of an animal that poses no danger to you and whose flesh you really do not need to keep you from starvation, is thought of as not just a satisfactory experience, but a highly pleasurable one as well.


On the other hand, 12 million people out of a population of over 300 million means that the hunters are (relatively) few in number, which is good news.



Unfortunately, Solfeggio, we are still a tiny minority in regards to the acceptance of hunting as a "sport" and source of entertainment. 


 The king of Spain just went to Africa on a safary to kill blood thirty, ferocious elephants.  I didn't know they are still doing that. There you have, the representative of a civilized country posing with a dead elephant, feeling so proud of the feet of pulling the trigger of an automatic weapon and getting rid of this menace to civilization, from a safe distance and  surrounded by guards. Nothing to do with feeding the family.


There are hundreds of farms and areas in South America and Africa stocked with game to shoot at, with all the comforts (including the booze) of the modern way of life.  Places full of antlers hanging from the walls, stuffed fowl  and pictures of satisfied customers with  smily faces.


 Truly pathetic to see this level of consciousness prevailing in the world.


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