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Switch to Forum Live View Redneck A-holes with guns
2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 5:51PM #91
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 10, 2012 -- 5:38PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 10, 2012 -- 5:28PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Except you are not very well informed about this issue. In fact, you are quite ill-informed. And your extreme opinons reflect that. You keep zeroing in on a few extreme cases of apparently wanton and inhumane wolf kills, and you try to paint the entire issue with that brush -- even though I've continually provided solid facts to the contrary. 




Your facts are biased.  I'll take the word of the Sierra Club, for example, over a special interest any day.


Apr 10, 2012 -- 5:28PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


BTW, I think very highly of animals, have a very deep and strong spirituality and come from a family that was into environmentalism before there was even a word for it. 




So, are you "horrified" by the information contained in the two articles presented in the OP?  You, like Erey, haven't said yet so I assume neither of you think it's worth addressing.  Do you think the killed wolves to to wolf heaven or human heaven?


Apr 10, 2012 -- 5:28PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


The fact that you continually stereotype those who disagree with you proves Erey's point.




No it doesn't. I'm not a Nazi.  It just proves that she's on your side of the divide, for whatever reason.  


Perhaps if you would stop with the stereotyping and the belittling of anyone who doesn't agree with you, you'd get a better response and Erey wouldn't have to support you by throwing REAL bombs of her own.




The Sierra Club isn't an interest group? Man, you really shot youself in the foot there. 


I suppose you think the USFWS is an "intererest group."


I'll take the word of wildlife biologists who actually worked on the reintroduction program over the Sierra Club. Do you even know who those guys are? Ever talk to any of them?


I did. They took loads of crap from both sides -- the ranchers and the Sierra Club types -- but they kept plugging and did their jobs.  They are hardworking experts. And they are nobody's bitches, despite what you might want to think. 


I never said you were a Nazi. I said you proved Erey's point about having an extremely closed mind. And you have stereotyped people who might have a different view on wolves than you do. 



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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 5:53PM #92
Erey
Posts: 18,427

Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:47PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:20PM, Erey wrote:


I am horrified at the steel shut closed mind, the extreme judgement and demonization of other people that 1. don't kill wolves and 2. just have a different point of view to share.





Yes the demonization of animals rights activists like solfeggio, gun control advocates like James Brady, spiritualists like arielg, environmentalists such as those who would sue to overturn a bogus law passed by politicians in DC bowing to special interests is "horrifying" -- but not as horrifying as an animal chewing itself out of its leghold trap only to die a slow and painful death due to infection, or a wolf getting shot repeatedly by yahoos with rifles because it is immobilized by having its leg caught in a steel leg hold trap, or one that doesn't die right away from strangulation in a snare.


We all get to pick what we are horrified by, informed or not.




Nobody was demonizing ANY Poster  here on this thread until you started your hatefull ranting accusing Mytmouse of being a really vile human being.  Then ArielG stepped in and cheered on yoru demonization. Before that Solf was demonizing people she does not know who live in the western states and hunt wolves.  She called them assholes.  Whereas I think it is really very judgy and makes the animal rights activists look like assholes themselves those guys don't post here.


However that did not stop you from painting anyone esp. Mytmouse with this big wolf torturer brush which was  highly obnoxious.  But you are not capable of recognizing or respecting a different point of view so I just hope you stay powerless

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 5:57PM #93
solfeggio
Posts: 8,939

Mouse -


I give up.


Rabello -


It's hopeless.  It comes down to hunters vs environmentalists, and let's face it: the various hunting organisations' primary motive is not to maintain biodiversity, or even to advocate for the indigenous species, but simply to ensure that there are adequate 'game' populations for hunters' benefit.


www.idausa.org/facts/hunting.html


People who respect nature do not destroy it.


However, different studies have shown that the ranks of hunters in America are shrinking dramatically, with only 7% of Americans hunters now.


Hunters may protest that hunting is a tradition, but traditions can change.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 6:04PM #94
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 10, 2012 -- 5:57PM, solfeggio wrote:


Mouse -


I give up.


Rabello -


It's hopeless.  It comes down to hunters vs environmentalists, and let's face it: the various hunting organisations' primary motive is not to maintain biodiversity, or even to advocate for the indigenous species, but simply to ensure that there are adequate 'game' populations for hunters' benefit.


www.idausa.org/facts/hunting.html


People who respect nature do not destroy it.


However, different studies have shown that the ranks of hunters in America are shrinking dramatically, with only 7% of Americans hunters now.


Hunters may protest that hunting is a tradition, but traditions can change.




Solf, what's downright offensive to me is, you think hunter and environmentalist are mutually exclusive terms. That's simply not true. 


My father retired early from the Forest Service and dedicated the rest of his life to wilderness and wildlands preservation. And he's the guy who taught me woodsmanship and hunting.


I've pointed out to you, over and over, hunters and environmental groups work together all the time. Many members of environmental groups are hunters. 


I encourage you, watch the movie, "The Green Fire" about Aldo Leopold. He virtually founded environmentalism as we know it today. 


And he was a hunter.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 6:16PM #95
arielg
Posts: 9,116

I can hunt, and I can kill. I think the canine is my totem animal -- so to speak. I'm a hunter at heart. Past that, I don't think I could explain it in terms you would understand.


That is a canard you hide under to avoid exploring  things you are afraid to notice.   We understand very well.  We are all made up of the same stuff.  We all have the capacity to  experience the same feelings and instincts as anyone else and indulge in cruelty under the right circumstances. 


We just choose to notr be controlled by them, because our higher reasoning  tells us that there are things in our nature that should be avoided.


When I was a kid  I lived in a farm.  When cats had too big a litter, it was my job to eliminate them.  I experienced a strange thrill  in hanging the kitties from a tree until they died. I did not notice  their suffering.  It was just exciting.  I indulged in that animal instinct because I had no sense of right and wrong then, no empathy  and no knoweledge about  controlling our lower impulses. Everybody has those instincts, they are just buried in the subconscious by understanding, the education of civilized society and social mores.


 


 


 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 6:28PM #96
arielg
Posts: 9,116

This is from Solfeggio's link:


"Hunting, the stalking and killing of animals, has been an American tradition most likely since the Ice Age when plant food became scarce. Today it exists as a "sport";  even when the animals' flesh is eaten, there is no excuse or justification for stalking and killing an animal in his or her habitat. Nevertheless, people not only engage in hunting but strongly defend it as their right to do so. With an arsenal of rifles, shotguns, muzzleloaders, handguns, bows and arrows, hunters kill more than 200 million animals yearly - crippling, orphaning, and harassing millions more. The annual death toll in the U.S. includes 42 million mourning doves, 30 million squirrels, 28 million quail, 25 million rabbits, 20 million pheasants, 14 million ducks, 6 million deer, and thousands of geese, bears, moose, elk, antelope, swans, cougars, turkeys, wolves, foxes, coyotes, bobcats, boars, and other woodland creatures. (Compiled by The Fund for Animals with data from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and state wildlife agencies.)
Less than seven percent of the U.S. population hunts. Hunting is permitted on 60 percent of U.S. wildlife refuges and in many national forests and state parks. On federal land alone (more than half a billion acres), more than 200 million animals are killed every year. "  There is more


And this level of consciuousnes should not be demonized but put on a par with environmentalists and given the same respect as any other way of thinking?.


Sorry, call me a nazi, but I am not about to lower myself to this level of thinking and will point that out every chance I get.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 6:32PM #97
rangerken
Posts: 16,407

I know of few people who are more keenly aware of and supportive of various environmental causes than hunters. I of course include myself.


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 6:36PM #98
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 10, 2012 -- 6:16PM, arielg wrote:


I can hunt, and I can kill. I think the canine is my totem animal -- so to speak. I'm a hunter at heart. Past that, I don't think I could explain it in terms you would understand.


That is a canard you hide under to avoid exploring  things you are afraid to notice.   We understand very well.  We are all made up of the same stuff.  We all have the capacity to  experience the same feelings and instincts as anyone else and indulge in cruelty under the right circumstances. 


We just choose to notr be controlled by them, because our higher reasoning  tells us that there are things in our nature that should be avoided.


When I was a kid  I lived in a farm.  When cats had too big a litter, it was my job to eliminate them.  I experienced a strange thrill  in hanging the kitties from a tree until they died. I did not notice  their suffering.  It was just exciting.  I indulged in that animal instinct because I had no sense of right and wrong then and no knoweledge about  controlling our lower impulses. Everybody has those instincts, they are just buried in the subconscious by understanding, the education of civilized society and social mores.


 


 


 




Who is "we?" 


Hanging kittens is a far cry from a fair chase hunt for a wild deer, pronghorn or elk. I'll just leave it at that. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 6:42PM #99
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Apr 10, 2012 -- 6:32PM, rangerken wrote:


I know of few people who are more keenly aware of and supportive of various environmental causes than hunters. I of course include myself.


Ken




The irony of some folks berating hunters is -- if it had not been for hunters/visionary conservationists, like Aldo Leopold, like Teddy Roosevelt, the habitat into which the wolves were reintroduced in the West and Southwest probably would not have survived into modern times anyway.


So, after generations of protecting and preserving that habiat -- one can see why some hunters are upset at the notion that they should just back off and let wolves have unlimited access to the game herds. 


Not that there isn't plenty of hyperbole coming from the hunting community regarding wolves. There is. Overall, for example, there are more elk in Montana-Idaho-Wyoming than ever before. And "hunters" calling for the unmitigated slaughter of all the wolves are idiots, IMO.


But, sheer elk numbers don't tell the entire story. it's also true, in specific areas, wolves have had a dramatic effect on hunting. I don't think it's too much that families that have hunted in those areas for generations should be allowed to cull a few wolves, to tip the scales just a bit. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 8:11PM #100
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Hanging kittens is a far cry from a fair chase hunt for a wild deer, pronghorn or elk. 


  "a fair chase hunt for a wild deer, pronghorn or elk" Ha, ha, ha,


"With an arsenal of rifles, shotguns, muzzleloaders, handguns, bows and arrows, hunters kill more than 200 million animals yearly - crippling, orphaning, and harassing millions more. The annual death toll in."... Without all the advantages, they wouldn't be able to get Mickey Mouse.


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