Post Reply
Page 2 of 46  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 46 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Redneck A-holes with guns
2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 12:51AM #11
rabello
Posts: 20,491

Parking lots, or privately owned acreage for, as you said, cattle ranches.


(got the parking lot image from Joni Mitchell, the zoo from S&G)


Good to see you back, solfeggio!!!


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 12:52AM #12
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Apr 4, 2012 -- 11:59PM, rabello wrote:


Apr 4, 2012 -- 7:03PM, solfeggio wrote:

The killing of wolves goes on and on in the American West.

www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/31/us-us...
And they're not just being killed, but they're being tortured as well.

www.commondreams.org/newswire/2012/04/04

What's the matter with people?  What is this big vendetta hunters and cattlemen have with wolves?

This is an endangered species.  Are people so stupid that they don't realise that all species are essential to the ecosystems of any area, and that if one goes, it impacts on everything else?

Has it not sunk into the thick brains of these people that the life of even one wolf is worth infinitely more than all the cattle herds in the world?
         



Horses, too.   Prairie dogs, too.


When the entire American west is finally "paved" over everyone can go to the




Hyperbole eschews many truly reasonable diiscussion, and adds little. It sems to me different areas with needs that may apply there need not be held hostage in other places. Our culture diversities need respect in their own smaller areas.


I am willing to tollerate ranchers to set the premiters.In thisI am slightly libertariam.


Wildlife abounds in the US and we will not pave all of their habitat over.......................


J.

discuss catholicism
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:40AM #13
rabello
Posts: 20,491

The Reuter's article is sickening, but the Common Dreams article and the picture it includes is gut-wrenching.  Torturing a captured animal is unacceptable and the people who did that to that wolf should be in jail, as what they did is SUPPOSED to be illegal.  Starting with the Forest Service employee who trapped the poor animal and then stood by and watched while others took pots shots at it with their guns and he took pictures for his Facebook page.  The blood-stained snow, and the wolf standing with one leg locked in a leg-hold trap is unconscionable.  Trapping and snaring, especially with leg-hold traps, of wolves and all fur-bearing animals should just be outlawed, period, and punished with stiff penalties.  


So....Idaho and Montana "need" to maintain a statewide population of only 150 animals to avoid having control taken from the states, again, and given over to federal protection, huh? And Wyoming is next!   More pictures for Facebook, perhaps?


The answer to your question, about the vendetta ranchers and hunters have against wolves is in the article, and it is, of course, filthy lucre. 


Hopefully everyone who participates here will read both articles, "Dead wolf photos stir tensions in West" and "Trapped Idaho Wolf Tortured Before Killing -- Attorney General, Forest Service Asked to Investigate Violations of State Cruelty Law and Forest Service Ethics" before commenting, rather than just reacting to what you wrote. 

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 3:41AM #14
shmuelgoldstein
Posts: 2,296

Apr 4, 2012 -- 7:03PM, solfeggio wrote:

The killing of wolves goes on and on in the American West.....
What's the matter with people?  What is this big vendetta hunters and cattlemen have with wolves?   



Ummmm . . . wolves attack the ranchers' cattle. So, the ranchers are protecting their stuff.


It's quite simple.


I don't know about the hunters, though.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 10:13AM #15
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:25AM, solfeggio wrote:


Rabello is right.  It really does seem as if humans are bent on destroying everything about the wilderness that makes it so magical, and turning the land into one big parking lot.


This killing of indigenous species - anywhere, and not just in the States - is so sad.  I know that people think prairie dogs and snakes and river otters, moose, elk, and anything else that happens to be living on the land is nothing more than a 'pest' that needs to be eradicated.  And this is why so many species are on the brink of extinction.


But it really is true that all species are interdependent upon each other, and we humans would do well to remember that we really do share this biosphere with ALL other organisms.




"Your destiny is a mystery to us. What will happen when the buffalo are all slaughtered? The wild horses tamed? What will happen when the secret corners of the forest are heavy with the scent of many men and the view of the ripe hills is blotted with talking wires? Where will the thicket be? Gone! Where will the eagle be? Gone! And what is to say goodbye to the swift pony and then hunt?


The end of living and the beginning of survival."  Chief Seattle

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 10:23AM #16
Patricklongworth
Posts: 213

The wolves are attacking ranchers' cattle?  This could be a discussion in the earlier part of the century, except that we are using electronic communication.  Have ranchers not learned an essential wisdom?  That as stewards of their cattle, they should not be leaving them vulnerable like that and expect to "get away with it".  Have they not considered having secured fields or bringing the cattle in the yard, hiring someone to watch over the cattle, or that as stewards (not owners) that they are "expected" to lose some of the cattle as that is food for the wolves and other animals (since we humans have often deprived the carnivores of their principal meat sources)?


I wonder if an underlying problem for ranchers is greed?  Being too greedy for money that they need the number of cattle that they have, that they don't properly protect them, that they continue to blame the ancestor of the dog rather than accept personal responsibility for their losses?  

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 12:34PM #17
rabello
Posts: 20,491

Apr 5, 2012 -- 10:23AM, Patricklongworth wrote:


The wolves are attacking ranchers' cattle?  This could be a discussion in the earlier part of the century, except that we are using electronic communication.  Have ranchers not learned an essential wisdom?  That as stewards of their cattle, they should not be leaving them vulnerable like that and expect to "get away with it".  Have they not considered having secured fields or bringing the cattle in the yard, hiring someone to watch over the cattle, or that as stewards (not owners) that they are "expected" to lose some of the cattle as that is food for the wolves and other animals (since we humans have often deprived the carnivores of their principal meat sources)?


I wonder if an underlying problem for ranchers is greed?  Being too greedy for money that they need the number of cattle that they have, that they don't properly protect them, that they continue to blame the ancestor of the dog rather than accept personal responsibility for their losses?  




Great post!


Of course, it's less expensive to do it the old wild west way than to enclose one's private property that prevents animals from entering.


At the same time, according to the article solfeggio provided, the state wildlife 'managements' of Idaho and Montana have to get their wolf numbers down from over 1,000 to 150 to protect ranchers and big-game hunters who want the same prey as the wolves, for their wall mounts and area rugs.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 12:51PM #18
Esdraelon
Posts: 5,236

Apr 4, 2012 -- 11:21PM, jane2 wrote:


Apr 4, 2012 -- 11:02PM, Erey wrote:


I believe wolves are no longer considered endangered. 


It is sad to see nature and civilization come up against each other like this.  Some types of nature coexist very well with civilization, other types not so much. 


Out near me we have coyotes but the wolves are pretty few and far between.  Although the wolves do come up into the city on rare occasion.  Coyotes coexist with human populations much better than wolves or mountain lions or grizzly bears.



Erey


Coyotes are a bit of a problem in my son's city but no one is over-concerned. My 17-y-o granddaughter loves animals but even she is not concerned. Nanas get to brag and she is brilliant-truly. We had the most fascinating conversations about life philosophy, etc. We stayed up very late three nights, one with her MIT brother. I loved the conversations we had about so much. I have been blessed with brilliant children and grandchildren. I was also blessed to grow up within a brilliant family. Even as preschoolers we were invited into the conversation at my grandparents' dining table. (And as Irish/English Americans we often had many conversations going at once. This still obtains today.)


J.



Coyotes are getting to be a problem in ther Atlanta area, getting more bold, and killing outside pets, as well as coming out as a good source of rabies, as well as multiplying like rabbits.


Wolves and ranchers have always been at odds, though. The more open the range, the more the certainty that wolves, bears, cougars, and the like will take their pick.

Moderated by Merope on Apr 06, 2012 - 02:10PM
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:23PM #19
rabello
Posts: 20,491

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:51PM, Esdraelon wrote:


Wolves and ranchers have always been at odds, though. The more open the range, the more the certainty that wolves, bears, cougars, and the like will take their pick.




Correction:


The more open the range, the more the certainty that ranchers and hunters will take their pick of wolves, bears, cougars, and the like.


What is ironic is that the wolf population in these states were restored, only so that they could be killed by ranchers and hunters.  


The states' wildlife management agencies, always so lauded by hunting and gun supporters, fell down on the job, as is clearly indicated in both articles.   Torture of animals by redneck A-holes with guns, or traps, or snares, should be prosecuted, not championed on Facebook.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:28PM #20
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:51PM, Esdraelon wrote:


Apr 4, 2012 -- 11:21PM, jane2 wrote:


Apr 4, 2012 -- 11:02PM, Erey wrote:


I believe wolves are no longer considered endangered. 


It is sad to see nature and civilization come up against each other like this.  Some types of nature coexist very well with civilization, other types not so much. 


Out near me we have coyotes but the wolves are pretty few and far between.  Although the wolves do come up into the city on rare occasion.  Coyotes coexist with human populations much better than wolves or mountain lions or grizzly bears.



Erey


Coyotes are a bit of a problem in my son's city but no one is over-concerned. My 17-y-o granddaughter loves animals but even she is not concerned. Nanas get to brag and she is brilliant-truly. We had the most fascinating conversations about life philosophy, etc. We stayed up very late three nights, one with her MIT brother. I loved the conversations we had about so much. I have been blessed with brilliant children and grandchildren. I was also blessed to grow up within a brilliant family. Even as preschoolers we were invited into the conversation at my grandparents' dining table. (And as Irish/English Americans we often had many conversations going at once. This still obtains today.)


J.



Coyotes are getting to be a problem in ther Atlanta area, getting more bold, and killing outside pets, as well as coming out as a good source of rabies, as well as multiplying like rabbits.


Wolves and ranchers have always been at odds, though. The more open the range, the more the certainty that wolves, bears, cougars, and the like will take their pick.



The rabies situation is worrisome. My son lives in Charlotte and much there is akin to happenings in Atlanta. We did discuss the rabies possibilities.


I certainly don't have a solution.


Today on www.msnbc.com there is a discussion about the wolves in Wyoming and the small profit margin for ranchers.

Moderated by Merope on Apr 06, 2012 - 02:08PM
discuss catholicism
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 2 of 46  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 46 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook