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Switch to Forum Live View Redneck A-holes with guns
2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 4:48PM #451
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Jun 5, 2012 -- 4:43PM, arielg wrote:


Until you've done it, perhaps you should quit trying to second-guess and pass judgement on those of us who do.


  What is this "until you've done it" crap? I was born and raised in the countryside with the animals.




Wolves, cougars and grizzlies?

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 6:44PM #452
solfeggio
Posts: 9,123

Well, our family did live in the countryside for four years, found we didn't like it, and subsequently moved back to the city. 


So, my feeling is that if you are worried about dangers posed by predators, you shouldn't be living so close to them. 


After all, where nature is concerned, humans have always been the interlopers.  Aboriginal peoples have always  understood this, but modern humans seem to think that they have the right to live wherever they please, and if the animals don't like it they can just be killed.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 6:55PM #453
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Jun 5, 2012 -- 6:44PM, solfeggio wrote:


Well, our family did live in the countryside for four years, found we didn't like it, and subsequently moved back to the city. 


So, my feeling is that if you are worried about dangers posed by predators, you shouldn't be living so close to them. 


After all, where nature is concerned, humans have always been the interlopers.  Aboriginal peoples have always  understood this, but modern humans seem to think that they have the right to live wherever they please, and if the animals don't like it they can just be killed.




Solf, you keep forgetting -- in this area, the large predators were either reintroduced (wolves) or allowed to repopulate and come back (grizzlies, cougars.)


Most of us living here now, were here before any of that took place. We had the good graces to admit that just willy-nilly killing off of the aformentioned creatures in the past was a mistake. We allowed them to come back -- which has cost all of us here at least something, and some of us a very great deal. 


As a native of these parts, it gets old, hearing outsiders talk about us, as if we are just a bunch of assholes who have no right to even be here at all -- just because we recognize the need to establish some boundaries with those creatures, and, at times, kill some of them to protect our interests. 


As I pointed out to you already, wolves move around, pioneer new territory, and defend it. 


Why shouldn't we?  Espeically when -- at least in relation to the wolves that are here now -- we were here first.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 7:16PM #454
solfeggio
Posts: 9,123

Ah, but Mouse, you see, you refer to the humans as having 'allowed' the animals to come back.  And that sort of attitude is what I'm talking about.


Nobody thinks that people who live in the boondocks are a-holes or anything like that.  As I've said, our family have been there, done that ourselves.  With us, though, it was more of living in harmony with nature, letting the wild animals do their thing without interference from us.  We wouldn't let hunters on our land, for example, which made the local townspeople annoyed, to say the least.


But, of course, we weren't farmers, but rather people who drove into the nearest city to work, which put us apart from the locals as well.


Basically, it just didn't work.


However, my feeling has always been that, if there has to be a choice, the animals should get to live where they want and the humans move on.


And this really is a mindset that we've developed over the years.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 2:53PM #455
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Jun 5, 2012 -- 7:16PM, solfeggio wrote:


Ah, but Mouse, you see, you refer to the humans as having 'allowed' the animals to come back.  And that sort of attitude is what I'm talking about.


Nobody thinks that people who live in the boondocks are a-holes or anything like that.  As I've said, our family have been there, done that ourselves.  With us, though, it was more of living in harmony with nature, letting the wild animals do their thing without interference from us.  We wouldn't let hunters on our land, for example, which made the local townspeople annoyed, to say the least.


But, of course, we weren't farmers, but rather people who drove into the nearest city to work, which put us apart from the locals as well.


Basically, it just didn't work.


However, my feeling has always been that, if there has to be a choice, the animals should get to live where they want and the humans move on.


And this really is a mindset that we've developed over the years.




Animals don't live where they want, Solf, they live according to their adaptations, and whether the landscape can provide their basic needs -- food, cover, water, adequate space, and so on.


The issue of human/wildlife interface is more complex than either one of us has made it out to be in this discussion so far. In principle, we have some fundamental disagreements.


In specific example of practice, we might find more common ground. For example, there might be many instances in which landowers are actually better off simply leaving predators alone, rather than the typical reaction of "Oh lordy, there's a coyote (or bear or wolf) on my land... kill it, kill it now!!"


Some research has demonstrated that knee-jerk killing of predators can actually increase instances of trouble, such as attacks against livestock, and so on.


On the other hand, simply letting things be, so to speak, won't work all the time either.


Now, humans can, in many cases, live where they want.


In that regard, I'm not particularly fond of subdivisions and trophy homes that take land away from agriculture or wildlife habitat.



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2 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2012 - 11:37PM #456
solfeggio
Posts: 9,123

I'm no fan of subdivisions or country estates, either, and for the same reason: They ruin land that should have been left wild.


In fact, if we're out driving, I just hate it when I see the bulldozers chopping up some beautiful green field to start another housing project. 


When I was growing up, there was this little grove of trees a few blocks from our house.  As kids, we used to have picnics there.  There were birds singing in the trees, and it was fun to try to identify the different types of trees around us.


However, in recent years, that little woods has completely disappeared, making room for another bunch of houses.


This sort of things breaks a person's heart.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2012 - 10:20AM #457
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Jun 6, 2012 -- 11:37PM, solfeggio wrote:


I'm no fan of subdivisions or country estates, either, and for the same reason: They ruin land that should have been left wild.


In fact, if we're out driving, I just hate it when I see the bulldozers chopping up some beautiful green field to start another housing project. 


When I was growing up, there was this little grove of trees a few blocks from our house.  As kids, we used to have picnics there.  There were birds singing in the trees, and it was fun to try to identify the different types of trees around us.


However, in recent years, that little woods has completely disappeared, making room for another bunch of houses.


This sort of things breaks a person's heart.




We agree on this one, solf. I really think more people should just settle for living in town. Heck, it's better for them in the long run. That way, there's no need to embark on a 45 minute journey, just because you realize upon getting back home to your "country estate," you forgot to pick up toilet paper or some other vital item when you were at the store. 


I have lived way out in the country a time or two. It can be a real pain in the ass (no pun intended) that way. 


Living in town is ultimately so much easier for me. Everything I want or need is just a walk or short bike ride away. 


 Plus, I'm leaving the countryside for the farmers and wild animals. It's a win-win.

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