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Switch to Forum Live View Religious extremists at it again.....
3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 12:35PM #71
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,384

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:20PM, costrel wrote:


Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:44AM, Girlchristian wrote:

Depends on where one is. I know several teachers here in my city and if a child questions evolution or asks any question about faith (even if it's in a math class or sheer curiosity about the teacher, for instance, "teacher X do you believe in God") then they aren't allowed to answer and if they do, they can be in trouble or terminated. 


Teachers are authority figures, and they should never answer student questions concerning their personal religious beliefs, political beliefs, political party affiliation, or which politicans they vote for or plan to vote for in an election. That is being professional. If a math teacher were to answer that student's question about belief in God, that teacher would not be acting professionally. I really don't see why that is so hard to understand.  




I don't fully agree. If a student says "do you believe in God" and the teacher answers "Yes, I do" and that's it then saying that they're unprofessional for doing so is silly. If the teacher says "yes, I do and here is why you should too" then that would be unprofessional. IMO, it's really no different than a student asking "do you have kids" and the teachers saying "yes/no."


But, then, you and I disagree that a suit = professional and all other attire = unprofessional, so probably not that surprising we disagree on this. Smile

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 12:45PM #72
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,786

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:20PM, costrel wrote:


 Teachers are authority figures, and they should never answer student questions concerning their personal religious beliefs, political beliefs, political party affiliation, or which politicans they vote for or plan to vote for in an election. That is being professional. If a math teacher were to answer that student's question about belief in God, that teacher would not be acting professionally. I really don't see why that is so hard to understand.  




I too do not see why it is so hard to understand. But Christians (Those who like to impose their views on other and defend these laws), tend to not stay with in what is their business. And do tend to invade  into and demand information that is none of their business.


Other wise religion would not be a topic in the presidential election. And why they can not see a conflict about teaching their religion in public schools where there are people of other religions,that do not prescribe to their religion.


  It is indoctrination.


A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 12:53PM #73
lucaspa
Posts: 557

Apr 4, 2012 -- 11:30AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 4, 2012 -- 10:59AM, gregarious wrote:


The measure passed by the Tennessee General Assembly would protect teachers who allow students to criticize evolution and other scientific theories, such as global warming.


uh, where's the religious extremism in this?




I agree. Schools are supposed to teach critical thinking and encourage debate and discussion, which this would allow. Unless one wants no discussion on things like evolution and no criticism of the theories surrounding it, I'm not sure I understand the issue. In my science class we discussed evolution and we discussed the holes in the theories and we discussed the controversy surrounding evolution.



The problem is that there are no VALID criticisms of evolution.  You sound like you "discussed" real "holes in the theories" and real "controversy" that evolution didn't happen.  That means that whoever told you that the criticisms are controversy were valid lied to you.


Creationism is a falsified scientific theory.  It is just plain wrong.  God tells us so in His Creation.

"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault."  Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437

"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works."  James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, The Religious Aspects of Evolution, 2d ed. 1890, pg 68.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 12:56PM #74
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Students are in class to learn. None of them are even remotely qualified to criticize what they're being taught. It is sheer presumption on their part to criticize established scientific theories with which they are only imperfectly acquainted, and they ought to be swatted down whenever they attempt it.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:00PM #75
rabello
Posts: 21,664

Apr 4, 2012 -- 9:51PM, REteach wrote:


I don't think I understand this.  Are teachers punished if a student says they were taught about Adam and Eve in Sunday school?  


"The measure passed by the Tennessee General Assembly would protect teachers who allow students to criticize evolution and other scientific theories, such as global warming."


So is this an insidious foot in the door allowing science teachers to teach religion in the guise of science, or is this grandstanding to protect teachers from something they don't need to be protected from?




It is the former -- an insidious foot in the door allowing science teachers to teach religious dogma as fact and equivalent to scientific theory.  It's not about answering questions.  It's about NOT correcting a student who claims in science class, for example, that the so-called lack of a so-called "missing link" proves evolution can't be correct, or that evolution is just a theory that atheists want to force onto the general public, or that the 7 days of creation represents thousands or millions of years in god's eye. 


 


Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:44AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Depends on where one is. I know several teachers here in my city and if a child questions evolution or asks any question about faith (even if it's in a math class or sheer curiosity about the teacher, for instance, "teacher X do you believe in God") then they aren't allowed to answer and if they do, they can be in trouble or terminated.




A teacher in public school would be crazy and professionally suicidal to tell a student he/she DOESN'T believe in god. 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:02PM #76
lucaspa
Posts: 557

Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:44AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 4, 2012 -- 9:51PM, REteach wrote:


"The measure passed by the Tennessee General Assembly would protect teachers who allow students to criticize evolution and other scientific theories, such as global warming."



The problem here, again, is that the criticisms aren't valid.  What it means is that teachers are encouraged to allow students to disseminate false information in class.


Depends on where one is. I know several teachers here in my city and if a child questions evolution or asks any question about faith (even if it's in a math class or sheer curiosity about the teacher, for instance, "teacher X do you believe in God") then they aren't allowed to answer and if they do, they can be in trouble or terminated.



Quite frankly, the religious beliefs of your teachers are none of your business.  Those beliefs have nothing to do with their professional performance.  Asking their religious beliefs is just as out of bounds for students as asking them "Did you have sex last night?" or "who are you dating?"


Science is agnostic.  Neither theistic nor atheistic.  Science MUST be taught like that.  Now, a child may question evolution, but in that case the teacher should tell them why and how evolution is supported and alternative theories are wrong. 


I suggest you read the book Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth Miller.  Miller is a college professor.  He never answers questions about his beliefs in class.  However, he will answer them in private.  But his students are adults and the situation is different.  You and your fellow high school students are not yet adults and your teachers should not be answering those types of questions in class, or even in private. 


BTW, Miller answers the question "Do you believe in God" as "Yes, I believe in Darwin's God".  You need to read the book to understand exactly what he means by that.  But I can tell you that "Darwin's God" is the Christian God and not the god-of-the-gaps atheistic god of creationism. 

"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault."  Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437

"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works."  James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, The Religious Aspects of Evolution, 2d ed. 1890, pg 68.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:04PM #77
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,384

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:53PM, lucaspa wrote:


Apr 4, 2012 -- 11:30AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 4, 2012 -- 10:59AM, gregarious wrote:


The measure passed by the Tennessee General Assembly would protect teachers who allow students to criticize evolution and other scientific theories, such as global warming.


uh, where's the religious extremism in this?




I agree. Schools are supposed to teach critical thinking and encourage debate and discussion, which this would allow. Unless one wants no discussion on things like evolution and no criticism of the theories surrounding it, I'm not sure I understand the issue. In my science class we discussed evolution and we discussed the holes in the theories and we discussed the controversy surrounding evolution.



The problem is that there are no VALID criticisms of evolution.  You sound like you "discussed" real "holes in the theories" and real "controversy" that evolution didn't happen.  That means that whoever told you that the criticisms are controversy were valid lied to you.


Creationism is a falsified scientific theory.  It is just plain wrong.  God tells us so in His Creation.





First, creationism isn't a scientific theory, it's merely a matter of faith and it's something that some Christians believe literally and others don't.


Second, the National Center for Science Education, whose sole purpose is fighting to keep evolution taught in schools actually recommends that science teachers teach the "controversy" around evolution including discussing and evaluating creationism, because giving students the opportunity to evaluate creationism scientifically actually enhances their ability to understand evolution.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:05PM #78
lucaspa
Posts: 557

Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:35PM, Girlchristian wrote:


I don't fully agree. If a student says "do you believe in God" and the teacher answers "Yes, I do" and that's it then saying that they're unprofessional for doing so is silly. If the teacher says "yes, I do and here is why you should too" then that would be unprofessional. IMO, it's really no different than a student asking "do you have kids" and the teachers saying "yes/no."



It's very different. As you yourself have indicated, you equate belief in God with rejection of evolution.  You think being Christian gives the teacher added "authority" in your eyes.  Quite frankly, the teacher should not be answering the question "do you have kids?", either.  It's also none of your business. A teacher's private life, whatever it is, is none of your business as a student.

"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault."  Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437

"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works."  James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, The Religious Aspects of Evolution, 2d ed. 1890, pg 68.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:08PM #79
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,384

Apr 5, 2012 -- 1:02PM, lucaspa wrote:


Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:44AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 4, 2012 -- 9:51PM, REteach wrote:


"The measure passed by the Tennessee General Assembly would protect teachers who allow students to criticize evolution and other scientific theories, such as global warming."



The problem here, again, is that the criticisms aren't valid.  What it means is that teachers are encouraged to allow students to disseminate false information in class.


Depends on where one is. I know several teachers here in my city and if a child questions evolution or asks any question about faith (even if it's in a math class or sheer curiosity about the teacher, for instance, "teacher X do you believe in God") then they aren't allowed to answer and if they do, they can be in trouble or terminated.



Quite frankly, the religious beliefs of your teachers are none of your business.  Those beliefs have nothing to do with their professional performance.  Asking their religious beliefs is just as out of bounds for students as asking them "Did you have sex last night?" or "who are you dating?"


Science is agnostic.  Neither theistic nor atheistic.  Science MUST be taught like that.  Now, a child may question evolution, but in that case the teacher should tell them why and how evolution is supported and alternative theories are wrong. 


I suggest you read the book Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth Miller.  Miller is a college professor.  He never answers questions about his beliefs in class.  However, he will answer them in private.  But his students are adults and the situation is different.  You and your fellow high school students are not yet adults and your teachers should not be answering those types of questions in class, or even in private. 


BTW, Miller answers the question "Do you believe in God" as "Yes, I believe in Darwin's God".  You need to read the book to understand exactly what he means by that.  But I can tell you that "Darwin's God" is the Christian God and not the god-of-the-gaps atheistic god of creationism. 




I'm a 34 year old woman and not a high school student (nor, btw, am I a Christian that takes the creation story literally), but I do know from friends that are teachers that high school students are inquisitive and do ask things like "do you believe in God" or "what's the last movie you saw" or "what kind of music do you listen to" or "do you have kids" or "are you married" among many other questions. IMO, the best way to handle those questions is to answer them and then move on.


Hell, when I was in high school many, many years ago, we knew if our teachers were married or had kids or went to church simply because they weren't so rigid and if a student asked them questions they answered honestly.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 1:09PM #80
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,384

Apr 5, 2012 -- 1:05PM, lucaspa wrote:


Apr 5, 2012 -- 12:35PM, Girlchristian wrote:


I don't fully agree. If a student says "do you believe in God" and the teacher answers "Yes, I do" and that's it then saying that they're unprofessional for doing so is silly. If the teacher says "yes, I do and here is why you should too" then that would be unprofessional. IMO, it's really no different than a student asking "do you have kids" and the teachers saying "yes/no."



It's very different. As you yourself have indicated, you equate belief in God with rejection of evolution.  You think being Christian gives the teacher added "authority" in your eyes.  Quite frankly, the teacher should not be answering the question "do you have kids?", either.  It's also none of your business. A teacher's private life, whatever it is, is none of your business as a student.




Nowhere have I stated that or indicated that. I have in fact stated that I believe in God and do not reject evolution.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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