Post Reply
Page 4 of 8  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 8 Next
Switch to Forum Live View More nukes for South Carolina - Are they crazy or just stupid?
3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 5:50PM #31
mountain_man
Posts: 40,180

Apr 3, 2012 -- 4:42PM, d_p_m wrote:

...Unfortunately both popular culture and the popular media tend to wax hysterical over things nuclear....


Sorry to be so blunt about it, but saying the other side tends to "wax hysterical" over nuclear tells me that your position is not any better. If you had a valid position you would not have to dismiss the other side the way you have here. I go by the facts, not hysteria. I want the facts. The pro nuclear doesn't present facts, but factoids - things that look and act like facts, but are not facts.


They poo-poo the fact that nuclear is the worst environmentally. Just getting the fuel wreaks havoc leaving hyper toxic waste all over the place, then there is the waste from the plant itself that produces something so toxic that it could kill for tens of thousands of years.


They ignore the fact that because of nuclear power we now have two large chunks of the Earth that shall remain uninhabitable for hundreds, or more, years.


They don't even mention the fact that nuclear power plants are not insured. If there is an accident; they don't have to pay a dime. If they had to be insured at the same rate as other generating plants the cost would double the already high cost.


Then there is the decommissioning costs that the rate payers have to pick up the tab for. They wouldn't dare make the stock holders or anyone making a profit off of the plant for that.


As I said earlier they could save the amount of electricity the plant would produce, and do it cheaper, just by buying everyone in the service area a new refrigerator.


No, nuclear makes no sense.


Instead put all that money wasted on a nuclear plant and put it towards making alternative sources more efficient. Saving, efficiency, and renewable are the only way for a civilized society to go.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 5:53PM #32
teilhard
Posts: 51,791

ALL Mining and MANY other Industrial Processes (e.g., "Modern" Agriculture ... !!!) produces large Scale Environmental Problems and even Devastation ... Getting worked-up about such Problems indeed solves NO Problems, but only clouds our clear Thinking about finding workable practical Solutions ...

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 6:05PM #33
d_p_m
Posts: 10,085

Apr 3, 2012 -- 5:50PM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 3, 2012 -- 4:42PM, d_p_m wrote:

...Unfortunately both popular culture and the popular media tend to wax hysterical over things nuclear....


Sorry to be so blunt about it, but saying the other side tends to "wax hysterical" over nuclear tells me that your position is not any better. If you had a valid position you would not have to dismiss the other side the way you have here. I go by the facts, not hysteria. I want the facts. The pro nuclear doesn't present facts, but factoids - things that look and act like facts, but are not facts.




i can't agree. Consider MRI - Magnetic resonance imaging. A very userful technology for certain types of medical diagnosis. MRI machines used to be called NMR machines... as in nuclear magnetic resonance - which accurately describes how they work. But people were scared of them because of the word nuclear in the name, so they changed it. The machine is the same, the process is the same, but an irrational fear forced a PR rebranding of the technology.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr



"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

-- Albert Einstein
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 6:09PM #34
d_p_m
Posts: 10,085

Apr 3, 2012 -- 5:50PM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 3, 2012 -- 4:42PM, d_p_m wrote:

...Unfortunately both popular culture and the popular media tend to wax hysterical over things nuclear....


Sorry to be so blunt about it, but saying the other side tends to "wax hysterical" over nuclear tells me that your position is not any better. If you had a valid position you would not have to dismiss the other side the way you have here. I go by the facts, not hysteria. I want the facts. The pro nuclear doesn't present facts, but factoids - things that look and act like facts, but are not facts.




Consider this. Two of the three worst 'nuclear power disasters' in history were Three Mile Island, and Fukushima. There was tons of media coverage of the 'disaster'.


In how many other human activities do you find zero casualty disasters? In the case of Three Mile Island there was no significant damage of any kind outside the boundaries of the plant. That's not a disaster, that's an industrial accident.


But because it's 'nuclear' it gets promoted to major disaster, decades after the fact, still denounced as a catastrophe by anti-nuclear campaigners.


Poppycock.




"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr



"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

-- Albert Einstein
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 6:15PM #35
teilhard
Posts: 51,791

I think some Folks worry-worry-worry about "Radiation" so much because you can't see it, taste it, smell it, or hear it ... So it seems MUCH creepier than the Chemical Spill when a Pipeline breaks or some Rail-Cars  fall off the Tracks on the other side of Town ...


Apr 3, 2012 -- 6:09PM, d_p_m wrote:


Apr 3, 2012 -- 5:50PM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 3, 2012 -- 4:42PM, d_p_m wrote:

...Unfortunately both popular culture and the popular media tend to wax hysterical over things nuclear....


Sorry to be so blunt about it, but saying the other side tends to "wax hysterical" over nuclear tells me that your position is not any better. If you had a valid position you would not have to dismiss the other side the way you have here. I go by the facts, not hysteria. I want the facts. The pro nuclear doesn't present facts, but factoids - things that look and act like facts, but are not facts.




Consider this. Two of the three worst 'nuclear power disasters' in history were Three Mile Island, and Fukushima. There was tons of media coverage of the 'disaster'.


In how many other human activities do you find zero casualty disasters? In the case of Three Mile Island there was no significant damage of any kind outside the boundaries of the plant. That's not a disaster, that's an industrial accident.


But because it's 'nuclear' it gets promoted to major disaster, decades after the fact, still denounced as a catastrophe by anti-nuclear campaigners.


Poppycock.








Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 6:38PM #36
mountain_man
Posts: 40,180

Apr 3, 2012 -- 6:09PM, d_p_m wrote:

Consider this. Two of the three worst 'nuclear power disasters' in history were Three Mile Island, and Fukushima. There was tons of media coverage of the 'disaster'.


I'm not going to consider that since I do not get my information from the media.


In how many other human activities do you find zero casualty disasters? ...


False comparison. No one is saying anything has to be perfectly safe. We know that nuclear power generation is environmentally disastrous - not from the plant blowing up - but from the fuel, making the fuel, disposing of the spent fuel, and disposing of the plant. When taking into consideration ALL the facts, nuclear power is the most expensive - over $1.50 kwh, an environmental disaster, and a potential danger that makes it's use insane.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 6:39PM #37
mountain_man
Posts: 40,180

Apr 3, 2012 -- 6:05PM, d_p_m wrote:

i can't agree. Consider MRI - Magnetic resonance imaging...


A false comparison that has nothing to do with anything I said. Most people are intelligent, and educated, enough to know the difference between MRI and nuclear power.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 6:41PM #38
d_p_m
Posts: 10,085

Apr 3, 2012 -- 5:53PM, teilhard wrote:


ALL Mining and MANY other Industrial Processes (e.g., "Modern" Agriculture ... !!!) produces large Scale Environmental Problems and even Devastation ... Getting worked-up about such Problems indeed solves NO Problems, but only clouds our clear Thinking about finding workable practical Solutions ...




What we need is a rational cost/benefit/risk analysis.


For comparison, the worst, most common, nuclear radiation accidents don't have to do with commercial nuclear power, they have to do with:


1. Nuclear weapons manufacture.


2. Radiotherapy for cancer and other diseases.


3. High energy medical and diagnostic imaging.


4. Safety imaging (bridges, airframes, pipeline welds, pressure vessels).


5. Scrap metal reclamation.


(6. And occasionally, food preservation, agricultural research, radiation safety training, etc... probably much less important than the previous five)


The first one is pretty much out of the control of normal citizens.


The next three are really aspects of the same problem - improperly handled or decommissioned radiation sources. Every few years another case comes up and kills a few people, or contaminates large amounts of material.


This feeds into 5, above. Sometimes improperly decommissioned sources end up in scrap metal, and either bad things happen (Brazil, India) or they get melted into steel - there are apartments in Taiwan built with radioactive rebar - a fact people keep trying to hide.


Yet no one suggests we stop x-raying airframes to see if the wings or tails are about to fall off, or that we cease medical x-rays, or cancer treatments using various forms of radiotherapy. It's all about balancing risk, cost, and benefit.


Again, more common, less hyped risks are ignored, while spectacular risks that are unlikely to occur dominate our thinking.


Nuclear waste must wait on another posting.



"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr



"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

-- Albert Einstein
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 6:44PM #39
d_p_m
Posts: 10,085

Apr 3, 2012 -- 6:39PM, mountain_man wrote:


Apr 3, 2012 -- 6:05PM, d_p_m wrote:

i can't agree. Consider MRI - Magnetic resonance imaging...


A false comparison that has nothing to do with anything I said. Most people are intelligent, and educated, enough to know the difference between MRI and nuclear power.




I think you may be over-estimating 'most people'. It's a common failing - the intelligent people tend to think everyone else is more like them. I'd cite the research, but I'm lazy. It did link back through data on the Dunning-Kruger effect and the tendency of competent people to understimate their competence relative to the general propulation.


"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr



"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

-- Albert Einstein
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 6:50PM #40
solfeggio
Posts: 9,462

Bottom line -


Nuclear power is dirty and dangerous, and it is an unacceptable risk to not only the environment, but to life on earth itself.


www.greenpeace.org/international/Global/...


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 4 of 8  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 8 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook