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Switch to Forum Live View Zimmerman: I was attacked first
3 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2012 - 10:14AM #171
teilhard
Posts: 51,406

An of course, many of us recall that The Rodney King Case figured prominently in the Fact that The SYSTEM was as much on Trial then as was "OJ" ...


Mar 30, 2012 -- 9:06AM, Marcion wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 3:47PM, rabello wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 3:38PM, Marcion wrote:


Prudent black leaders recognize Reverend Al and Jese Jackson as the racist trouble makers they are.


dailycaller.com/2012/03/28/alveda-king-s...




You mean the rightwing Republican ones who opine on FAUX News and on rightwing blogs like Daily Caller, which are at the forefront in demonizing a murdered teenager?


Maybe Alveda King and other black rightwingers can get around to explaining exactly WHY the Shooter Zimmerman "suspected" Trayvon Martin of being a "no gooder" just because he was walking through a "gated community" on the way back from a store where he bought candy and a nonalcoholic drink in a can? 


How about it Alveda?  What's your considered opinion on that event? White rightwingers do not see a need to question or explain that particular, precipitating event...maybe you, Alveda, can enlighten us.




Your responses remind me of the people who said you weren't really black unless you believed OJ was innocent. Facts be damned





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3 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2012 - 10:31AM #172
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Mar 29, 2012 -- 2:44PM, rabello wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 5:44PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


I think Zimmerman "singled out" Martin because he was there.




That makes no sense and is not an answer. Convenient, though, in order to defend a Have Gun/Will Travel philosophy.


Mar 28, 2012 -- 5:44PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


All indications are, that he was particularly "dedicated" to (obsessive about?) his neighborhood watch duties. Martin was hardly the first person he had eyeballed, followed or made calls about.




His "duties" were of his own creation. He was neither voted to head up a "neighborhood watch" program, nor was he authorized by any of his neighbors to stalk "strangers" as part of a neighborhood watch program.  In fact, it was reported on a news program that he was in violation of Florida state law for carrying a gun in a law enforcement capacity without a permit. 


In his published recordings to 9-1-1, he was always singling out blacks.  That pattern has already been shown.


Mar 28, 2012 -- 5:44PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


There's little doubt in my mind, had Martin been a white kid, Zimmerman would have done exactly the same thing. He did not like strange people in "his" nieghborhood.




Well, the problem with that is that it's only in your mind.  There is little doubt in MY mind that if the kid had been white, Zimmerman wouldn't have lost his head.


Mar 28, 2012 -- 5:44PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


And the sad irony is, had it been a white kid -- with exactly the same questions and outcome -- nobody would really give a crap, and it would have just been a little blip on the news.




That is so totally false I can't believe you wrote that, and if that's what you really and truly believe, that explains your excuse-making for Zimmerman more than anything you write. 


Such a slap in the face to the memory of all those murdered black teenagers.


Mar 28, 2012 -- 5:44PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


But as soon as those magic words "unarmed black" were uttered... well...




Yeah, right. Now I know where you're coming from. 




What's the obsession with firearms? You keep bringing that up, as if this was a gun rights issue, or as if I think my Second Amendment rights hinge on the outcome of this case. Clearly, they don't.


I've already stated that I, personally think that if Zimmerman felt the need to carry something on his rounds, it should have been pepper spray -- not a firearm. The implications of packing heat around on the street are just too grave.


Again, I think you're making some huge leaps of assumption regarding race. I still contend, Zimmerman was just very keen on "watching" the neigbhorhood. Obsessvie perhaps? Cop wanna-be, perhaps?


I don't know. I'd really rather wait and see what facts the investigation comes up with, rather than supposistions based upon media hype. 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2012 - 12:57PM #173
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

Mar 30, 2012 -- 10:14AM, teilhard wrote:


An of course, many of us recall that The Rodney King Case figured prominently in the Fact that The SYSTEM was as much on Trial then as was "OJ" ...


Mar 30, 2012 -- 9:06AM, Marcion wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 3:47PM, rabello wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 3:38PM, Marcion wrote:


Prudent black leaders recognize Reverend Al and Jese Jackson as the racist trouble makers they are.


dailycaller.com/2012/03/28/alveda-king-s...




You mean the rightwing Republican ones who opine on FAUX News and on rightwing blogs like Daily Caller, which are at the forefront in demonizing a murdered teenager?


Maybe Alveda King and other black rightwingers can get around to explaining exactly WHY the Shooter Zimmerman "suspected" Trayvon Martin of being a "no gooder" just because he was walking through a "gated community" on the way back from a store where he bought candy and a nonalcoholic drink in a can? 


How about it Alveda?  What's your considered opinion on that event? White rightwingers do not see a need to question or explain that particular, precipitating event...maybe you, Alveda, can enlighten us.




Your responses remind me of the people who said you weren't really black unless you believed OJ was innocent. Facts be damned








The difference was OJ was guilty. People went to prison on less compelling evidence. Jury nullification is not justice. If Zimmermn goes to trial we may very well see jury nullification again.


The purpose of a jury trial is to determine guilt or innocense, not to "send a message".

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2012 - 1:11PM #174
arielg
Posts: 9,116

What's the obsession with firearms? You keep bringing that up, as if this was a gun rights issue, or as if I think my Second Amendment rights hinge on the outcome of this case. Clearly, they don't.



Maybe because the bullet that killed the kid came from a gun, as they usually do.


 Your second ammendment rights (who were really rights granted a militia, not for individual's use) have to be weighted against the rights of society.   Society's welfare  is not enhanced by gun toting scared individuals. The obsession with catering to these people is a misunderstanding of individual rights and a left over from the frontier days where  a lot of people still live in.


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3 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2012 - 1:22PM #175
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Mar 30, 2012 -- 1:11PM, arielg wrote:


What's the obsession with firearms? You keep bringing that up, as if this was a gun rights issue, or as if I think my Second Amendment rights hinge on the outcome of this case. Clearly, they don't.



Maybe because the bullet that killed the kid came from a gun, as they usually do.


 Your second ammendment rights (who were really rights granted a militia, not for individual's use) have to be weighted against the rights of society.   Society's welfare  is not enhanced by gun toting scared individuals. The obsession with catering to these people is a misunderstanding of individual rights and a left over from the frontier days where  a lot of people still live in.





Thank you clarifying that you dislike firearms, and hold cliche notions about those of us who own firearms and support the Second Amendment.


You're welcome to your views, but I really don't care what you think. 


That said, did you pay attention to any of the rest of my post?

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2012 - 1:25PM #176
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Thank you clarifying that you dislike firearms, and hold cliche notions about those of us who own firearms and support the Second Amendment.


Talking about cliches...


I pretty much agree with the rest.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2012 - 1:39PM #177
TPaine
Posts: 9,380

Mar 30, 2012 -- 12:57PM, Marcion wrote:


Mar 30, 2012 -- 10:14AM, teilhard wrote:


An of course, many of us recall that The Rodney King Case figured prominently in the Fact that The SYSTEM was as much on Trial then as was "OJ" ...


Mar 30, 2012 -- 9:06AM, Marcion wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 3:47PM, rabello wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 3:38PM, Marcion wrote:


Prudent black leaders recognize Reverend Al and Jese Jackson as the racist trouble makers they are.


dailycaller.com/2012/03/28/alveda-king-s...



You mean the rightwing Republican ones who opine on FAUX News and on rightwing blogs like Daily Caller, which are at the forefront in demonizing a murdered teenager?


Maybe Alveda King and other black rightwingers can get around to explaining exactly WHY the Shooter Zimmerman "suspected" Trayvon Martin of being a "no gooder" just because he was walking through a "gated community" on the way back from a store where he bought candy and a nonalcoholic drink in a can? 


How about it Alveda?  What's your considered opinion on that event? White rightwingers do not see a need to question or explain that particular, precipitating event...maybe you, Alveda, can enlighten us.



Your responses remind me of the people who said you weren't really black unless you believed OJ was innocent. Facts be damned




The difference was OJ was guilty. People went to prison on less compelling evidence. Jury nullification is not justice. If Zimmermn goes to trial we may very well see jury nullification again.


The purpose of a jury trial is to determine guilt or innocense, not to "send a message".



I agree that OJ was guilty, but acquitting him was not a case of jury nullification. The jury believed that the Mark Fuhrman should have gotten a warrant before he climbed over the fence to enter Simpson's property. There were problems with the DNA evidence because the chain of evidence was broken. A jury is not suppose to convict unless the prosecution can prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. In the OJ case I agree with Jerry Spence. Simpson was guilty, but the prosecution lost the case, the defense didn't win it.

"The genius of the Constitution rests not in any static meaning it might have had in a world that is dead and gone, but in the adaptability of its great principles to cope with current problems and current needs." -- Justice William Brennan: Speech to the Text and Teaching Symposium at Georgetown University (October 12, 1985)
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2012 - 1:42PM #178
teilhard
Posts: 51,406

I agree that "OJ" probably was Guilty ...


BUT the Investigation was so badly handled by The LAPD (including especially by a self-admitted racist Cop, Mark Fuhrman) that the Jury DID have "Reasonable Doubt" ... the Jury DID essentially find "The System" GUILTY of screwing-up ...


(BTW, the Prosecutor of The "OJ" Case, Marcia Clark, has come out in Public indicating that The Night Stalker probably did NOT have reasonable Grounds for Self-Defense ... So ...)


Mar 30, 2012 -- 12:57PM, Marcion wrote:


Mar 30, 2012 -- 10:14AM, teilhard wrote:


An of course, many of us recall that The Rodney King Case figured prominently in the Fact that The SYSTEM was as much on Trial then as was "OJ" ...


Mar 30, 2012 -- 9:06AM, Marcion wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 3:47PM, rabello wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 3:38PM, Marcion wrote:


Prudent black leaders recognize Reverend Al and Jese Jackson as the racist trouble makers they are.


dailycaller.com/2012/03/28/alveda-king-s...




You mean the rightwing Republican ones who opine on FAUX News and on rightwing blogs like Daily Caller, which are at the forefront in demonizing a murdered teenager?


Maybe Alveda King and other black rightwingers can get around to explaining exactly WHY the Shooter Zimmerman "suspected" Trayvon Martin of being a "no gooder" just because he was walking through a "gated community" on the way back from a store where he bought candy and a nonalcoholic drink in a can? 


How about it Alveda?  What's your considered opinion on that event? White rightwingers do not see a need to question or explain that particular, precipitating event...maybe you, Alveda, can enlighten us.




Your responses remind me of the people who said you weren't really black unless you believed OJ was innocent. Facts be damned








The difference was OJ was guilty. People went to prison on less compelling evidence. Jury nullification is not justice. If Zimmermn goes to trial we may very well see jury nullification again.


The purpose of a jury trial is to determine guilt or innocense, not to "send a message".





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3 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2012 - 1:56PM #179
rabello
Posts: 21,687

Mar 30, 2012 -- 1:22PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


You're welcome to your views, but I really don't care what you think. 




This time around, tell that to the poor parents of the murdered victim.   I'd recommend that you leave out the "so sad/too bad, just glad it wasn't my kid" portion of your "shoot first/ask questions later" philosophy, though.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2012 - 2:04PM #180
rabello
Posts: 21,687

The better analogy to this case, aside from the Emmett Till case, is what happened to Rodney King, not to O J Simpson.   Of course, in the Rodney King case, conservatives expected all of us to disbelieve our own eyes and ears and accept their assumption that King "must have done something" to "deserve" getting beaten nearly to death.  Even now, rightwing blogs never miss a chance to still demonize Rodney King.


Or, the more recent Sean Bell case. 


A new eyewitness has come forward and puts Zimmerman's self righteous claims in even more doubt.   Zimmerman's brother, in an interview, says "the really sad thing" is that "nobody" came to Zimmerman's aid as he "cried out" for help to "stop" him from shooting Martin.    Jay-zuz.  Maybe the whole Zimmerman family is out to lunch.

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