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Switch to Forum Live View Christopher Hitchens, Dead at 62
3 years ago  ::  Dec 22, 2011 - 6:26PM #31
teilhard
Posts: 51,430

Yes ... However, The Religious Intrusive Obnoxious-ness of SOME People of Faith is a Problem that arises with THOSE  PERSONS -- NOT with the Faith Itself (OR with Persons of Faith like ME) ...


The "New Atheist" Guys like Hitchens, et al., (Intrusively-Obnoxiously !!!) want ALL People of Faith -- ALL of us -- to Just Go Away ...


Dec 22, 2011 -- 5:53PM, Ebon wrote:


Dec 21, 2011 -- 11:01PM, teilhard wrote:

See, I don't, e.g., play Golf ... I don't LIKE it ... I'm  NO  GOOD  at it ... I haven't played Golf since (literally) 1970 ... But I DON'T then go on to write BOOKS decrying Peope who DO play Golf and trying to convince others that "Golf" is Evil or Stupid ...



No but if you lived in a world where virtually everyone did play golf and, not only played it, but inserted references to it into secular matters; where playing golf was a litmus test for electing national leaders; where there was a golf course on every corner; where any science that didn't agree with the book of golf was rejected by a large percentage of the populace on that basis alone and where not playing gold made you less trusted than most criminals; then you might well be tempted to write that book.


Like most Christians, I don't think you understand quite how all-pervasive or intrusive Christianity is in our culture.





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3 years ago  ::  Dec 22, 2011 - 7:38PM #32
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Dec 22, 2011 -- 6:26PM, teilhard wrote:

The "New Atheist" Guys like Hitchens, et al., (Intrusively-Obnoxiously !!!) want ALL Peple of Faith -- ALL of us -- to Just Go Away ...



And how many books are written each year saying virtually the same about athiests? And my own faith (theistic Satanism) has been accused of pretty much every crime imaginable by the religious, all without a shred of evidence. And if it's not the accusations, it's the insinuations. I get it from both sides.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 22, 2011 - 8:00PM #33
shirleyj227
Posts: 10,991

Dec 21, 2011 -- 8:17PM, teilhard wrote:


Hitchens' broad-Brush Blanket General TOTAL Rejection of "God," Religion, and People of Faith was SO Far Over-the-Top ...


Yes ... It WAS "amiss" ... IMHO ...


Dec 21, 2011 -- 7:58PM, shirleyj227 wrote:


Dec 21, 2011 -- 5:13AM, BillThinks4Himself wrote:


Disagree with any one of these - or all of them together - but have the ability to do so precisely because Hitchens made an argument, not a naked, empty assertion masquerading as an argument.  For someone who thinks Hitchen was "amiss," you would do well to learn a thing or two from him, if you could.




Yes he did make some good argument on some of those subjects and to just say he was amiss is wrong.


Shirley








The point Teil is not is he "Amiss" The point is that he made the time to prove his point. You should also give him the time to say how he is AMISS.


Shirley

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 22, 2011 - 8:23PM #34
teilhard
Posts: 51,430

And what "both Sides" have in COMMON is ... People ...


Dec 22, 2011 -- 7:38PM, Ebon wrote:


Dec 22, 2011 -- 6:26PM, teilhard wrote:

The "New Atheist" Guys like Hitchens, et al., (Intrusively-Obnoxiously !!!) want ALL Peple of Faith -- ALL of us -- to Just Go Away ...



And how many books are written each year saying virtually the same about athiests? And my own faith (theistic Satanism) has been accused of pretty much every crime imaginable by the religious, all without a shred of evidence. And if it's not the accusations, it's the insinuations. I get it from both sides.





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3 years ago  ::  Dec 26, 2011 - 11:13AM #35
teilhard
Posts: 51,430

No ... "Scence" doesn't "'trump' Religion" any more than "Physics" has to "'trump' Poetry" ... 


They're DIFFERENT ...


The Natural Sciences are a (VERY Good !!!) Way of getting Informatiion about How The Universe Works -- measuring The Velocity of Light in a Vacuum, determining The Evolutionary Relationship of Reptiles and Mammals, decoding Nucleic Acid Molecular Structure, studying The Chemistry of Sea Water, etc. ... and nothing else ...


"Science" ISN'T  ABOUT "God" ...


Dec 23, 2011 -- 4:56PM, solfeggio wrote:


So, what exactly defines 'people of faith'?  What is faith?  It's a secure belief (in god) that does not rest on logic or material evidence, which adheres strictly to some cause or idea, and which belief inspires complete confidence and acceptance of whatever the particular religion defines as god's will. 


People of faith have an undeviating attachment to their religious beliefs, even if those beliefs have long been proven false by science. 


Science and religion are two different paradigms, and even if we start out life as people of faith, as we grow in knowledge, we have no problem finding it easy to dismiss the false claims of religion and look to science for our answers. 


Science trumps religion every time.


However, probably the worst damage that has been done by religion is its assurance to its followers that humans are the 'highest' species on this planet and, as such, everything else, whether animal, vegetable, or mineral, exists for no other purpose than to be of service to man.


This belief that the planet is theirs to use as they please has caused the widespread destruction of this world, as humans wreaked havoc on nature (and each other) over thousands of years.


The fact that evolutionary biologists have long since proven this hypothesis regarding the superiority of man to be false means nothing to people of faith, who stubbornly cling to the false statements and contradictions that abound in the holy books.


 


 


 





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3 years ago  ::  Dec 26, 2011 - 11:35AM #36
teilhard
Posts: 51,430

As a Trained Evolutionary Biologist, I share your Concerns for Human Interaction with The REST of Nature, and I have some deep Anxiety about The Human Prospect ... We have dug ourselves into a DEEP Hole and I am not optimistic that we're going to STOP digging any Time soon enough to improve -- much less stabilize --  the Situation ...


OTOH, the VAST Majority of Species on The Earth have gone Extinct after five to ten Million Years ... often after giving Rise to OTHER Species ...  And of course, ALL Living Species make a decidedly "destructive" Use of THEIR Environments too, using Nutrients and excreting-deposting Waste ... We Humans with our Industrial-Techno-Economy have simply increased this Pace to an unsustainable nth Degree and have forsaken a HEALTHY Cooperative Ecology for a TOO-Competitive Way of Slash and Burn ...


"Nature" will survive and prosper, but WE may be DOOMED ...


Dec 23, 2011 -- 4:56PM, solfeggio wrote:



However, probably the worst damage that has been done by religion is its assurance to its followers that humans are the 'highest' species on this planet and, as such, everything else, whether animal, vegetable, or mineral, exists for no other purpose than to be of service to man.


This belief that the planet is theirs to use as they please has caused the widespread destruction of this world, as humans wreaked havoc on nature (and each other) over thousands of years.


 





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3 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2012 - 7:00PM #37
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

This thread was moved from the Hot Topics Zone. It does, in fact, get into the science vs. relitgion theme extensively and therefore belongs here.

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2012 - 7:45PM #38
steven_guy
Posts: 11,751

I was sad to hear of the death of Christopher Hitchens. He was a brilliant man and a great fighter against the forces of darkness in the Western world.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 12:27PM #39
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,677

Jan 3, 2012 -- 7:45PM, steven_guy wrote:



steven_guy: I was sad to hear of the death of Christopher Hitchens. He was a brilliant man and a great fighter against the forces of darkness in the Western world.



iama: Yes, I, too, was saddened to hear of the death of Christopher Hitchens!


I viewed the following video last evening, all the while knowing that Christopher had recently died. 


Does the God of Christianity Exist, and What Difference Does It Make? A Panel Debate




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The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
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"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
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Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
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