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Switch to Forum Live View Bear Hunter Pays Ultimate Price
3 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2011 - 10:58AM #41
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,127

Yavanna:  I still can't get over the fact that you think other species are sentient.



While I think sentience is a continuum, I find amusing that the idea that ripping carrots out of the ground, where they grew up and felt nourished and participated in the ecology, is NOT the same thing.  :P


TemplarS:  For example: how come we allow humans to kill animals for "sport", yet make it illegal for other animals to kill animals for "sport" (dog-fighting, for example)?



At what point did the dog sign a contract or something?  Now, I realize dogs like to go at it.  Heck, my two do.  Of course, they also have manners and pause when puppies and stuff are around at the dog park.  :)


But, I think the reason our culture has started to frown on it is that humans are basically using the animals without their permission.


Stardove:  I know I could never kill an animal unless the killing was for pure survival with the exception of rats and mice who would want to live indoors with me.



I prefer "photo hunts", myself.  However, I don't knock hunting.  I'm not fond of sport hunting, but hunting serves an ecological purpose.


Erey:  Hunting is not typically a cheap sport.



Yeah, I've heard things like "it's cheaper than the supermarket".  After all the equipment, the licenses, etc ... was it really worth the expense when Kroger was just over there?


And I am not sure what makes an animal sentinent or nonsentinent - I can guess that a gorilla is sentinent but I don't think a mouse is.



I think it tends to boil down to if they act like an individual.  I feel my dogs are sentient.  They're at least as smart as very young human child (at least a slow one, LOL).  However, they clearly have their own personalities.  They clearly listen to us.  They clearly have their own agendas.  I like that about them.


If as you say sentinence is only the ability to feel pain as in having some negative physical reaction then I am left to assume that being sentinent is no big deal and therefore I really cannot give a poop if a being is sentinent - it means absolutely nothing!



Indeed.  Plants evolve defenses because -- surprise -- they don't like being eaten either.  But you'll NEVER hear a vegan claim we should spare the lives of grapefruit.

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2011 - 11:15AM #42
appy20
Posts: 10,165

Animals are probably the most important thing in the world to me. I would probably risk my life for my pets (and have on a couple of occasions) but I would not risk another person's life for my pets.  I do believe that people, at the end of the day, do matter more than animals.  I don't have the right to insist that others feel the same way about my pets as I do which is why if one of my animals is rabid and a threat to others, then that animal must be put down.


If a grizzly threatens a human, I feel that bear must go down.


I don't like hunting. I don't hunt.  When I used to date, I refused to date hunters.  However, I do know poor people (hunting license is cheaper than a week's worth of groceries) who hunt squirrels in their back yard or deer.  However, most hunters are not poor.  Modern hunters tend to practice poor sportsmanship and are a danger to others in the woods.  My uncles who grew up hunting gave up the sport because of irresponsible hunters in the field. Too many Dick Cheneys out there.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2011 - 7:45PM #43
TemplarS
Posts: 6,690

Sep 24, 2011 -- 11:15AM, appy20 wrote:


If a grizzly threatens a human, I feel that bear must go down.




Well, yeah, but what if the human was out to kill the grizzly for "sport" first?


Now, I'm not saying the hunter got what he deserved because he was hunting (though perhaps he did because he was an idiot). 


Look,  things in life have risk.  You go sky-diving, you better understand the dangers, and you better understand the ins and outs of prepping the chute, and you need to understand that in the worst case, you may die in spite of your best preparations.    You go out hunting bears in grizzly territory, same comments.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 25, 2011 - 12:20AM #44
solfeggio
Posts: 9,077

Templar -


Well said, and so true.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 25, 2011 - 9:06AM #45
shmuelgoldstein
Posts: 2,325

Sep 18, 2011 -- 4:07PM, solfeggio wrote:

My comment, as always in any discussion that involves hunters and hunting, is:


What sort of a twisted person enjoys killing and gets a thrill out of seeing the light of life go out of a sentient being's eyes?


 


I couldn't agree more.


I'm not a vegetarian, and have worked at a slaughterhouse, but it was a job, and I certainly didn't "enjoy" watching the animals being slaughtered.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 25, 2011 - 2:55PM #46
solfeggio
Posts: 9,077

Schmuel -


Thank you very much for your post, which is most appreciated.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 25, 2011 - 3:12PM #47
solfeggio
Posts: 9,077

Update on the original story:


www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/24/natio...


The bear hunter was not killed by the bear, but by a gunshot to the chest from his idiot companion. 

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 26, 2011 - 1:05PM #48
Stardove
Posts: 15,237

Sep 25, 2011 -- 3:12PM, solfeggio wrote:


Update on the original story:


www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/24/natio...


The bear hunter was not killed by the bear, but by a gunshot to the chest from his idiot companion. 



solfeggio,



Thanks for the link to update.  Just goes to show we cannot always believe what is first written or said by the media.  :-/

Beliefnet Community Wide Moderator ~ Peace Love Stardove
Problems? Send a message to Beliefnet_community

The words I speak and write carry energy and power, so I choose them with care and clear purpose. 

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2011 - 10:31PM #49
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Sep 25, 2011 -- 3:12PM, solfeggio wrote:


Update on the original story:


www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/24/natio...


The bear hunter was not killed by the bear, but by a gunshot to the chest from his idiot companion. 





Solf,


He was a young man caught in a dire and terrifing situation in which things were happening very quickly.


Calling him an "idiot" is in very poor taste.


As to how the situation got to that point in the first place. Well, I can speculate. The wisdom of hunting black bears in grizzly country to begin with. Perhaps not having adequate firepower. Perhaps not making every possible best effort to positively identify the species of the bear before making the shot.  Perhaps not making the best shot possible. Perhaps going in too quickly after a wounded animal in thick cover.


But, like I said. I wasn't there. There's no way I can know. There's no way I can really be in an honest posistion to criticize.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2011 - 10:37PM #50
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Sep 26, 2011 -- 1:05PM, Stardove wrote:


Sep 25, 2011 -- 3:12PM, solfeggio wrote:


Update on the original story:


www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/24/natio...


The bear hunter was not killed by the bear, but by a gunshot to the chest from his idiot companion. 



solfeggio,



Thanks for the link to update.  Just goes to show we cannot always believe what is first written or said by the media.  :-/




Star


Respectfully, few of us take any initial report as definitive. Some of us also select our news sources carefully and follow up.
Who on earth would trust CBS News at this time?



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