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Switch to Forum Live View Michael Jackson Dies
5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2009 - 9:57AM #31
Svetlana
Posts: 11,295

Jun 26, 2009 -- 9:47AM, Marcion wrote:


Jun 25, 2009 -- 7:46PM, Tmarie64 wrote:


Not genius enough to cause seriously ill people to die or be further harmed because they COULD NOT GET INTO THE DAMN E.R.


He wasn't a head of state, a religious leader, an ambassador.... he was an unhappy, twisted individual who could sing.


His pedophilia is a whole 'nother thread.  Not being convicted does not equate innocence.....




I agree that not being convicted does not equate to innocence, We already have one high profile case of an acquitted murderer i.e. OJ.


 


I guess it is OK to be a pedophile as long as you are a rock star - or a catholic priest.



So you DO believe that being charged DOES prove guilt, that no one is ever falsely accused?  I also find it interesting that it's always the acquited party who is blamed for their acquittal, that no one ever, EVER, accuses the jury of wrong-doing or wrong-mindedness.


It's clear to all but MJ haters that I have no idea whether the man is guilty or not, but I think I have to spell that out for some.  I have no idea, neither does anyone but MJ and his victims, if there ARE any victims.  I only object to condemnation of anyone without all the data and based merely on hatred.



"No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it."  ~ (common sense)

"Never place a period where God has placed a comma."  ~ Gracie Allen

"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it." ~ Abraham Lincoln

"I wonder sometimes if we ever give God a headache." ~ Dontay Hall, age 8
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2009 - 10:02AM #32
Cesmom
Posts: 4,849

Jun 25, 2009 -- 7:46PM, Tmarie64 wrote:


His pedophilia is a whole 'nother thread.  Not being convicted does not equate innocence.....





True, just like being accused of something does not equate guilt.


I think he never mentally/emotionally matured into an adult, for whatever reason.  There will always be speculation about whether he was actually a child molestor or whether he was just a troubled, reclusive man who did not have a good understanding of what was and was not appropriate in the adult world.  He never seemed to fully mature, and considering the extreme isolation he kept himself in, I could see where he could have a very poor understanding of what kind of boundaries should be kept between adults and children.  I can see where it's possible that certain parents decided to capitalize on his wealth, fame, and naivity.  Just saying...there are all kinds of possibilities as to what happened, and there was obviously not solid enough proof to convict.


I think it's incredibly sad that the world lost not one, but two HUGE entertainment icons yesterday.  Rest in peace Michael and Farrah.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2009 - 10:13AM #33
littleoma
Posts: 234

www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/a-t....


Deepak Chopra, who knew Michael Jackson for many years, posted this blog on the Huffington Post. 

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2009 - 10:41AM #34
Maya3
Posts: 928

Cesmom,


I think he never mentally/emotionally matured into an adult, for whatever reason.  There will always be speculation about whether he was actually a child molestor or whether he was just a troubled, reclusive man who did not have a good understanding of what was and was not appropriate in the adult world.  He never seemed to fully mature, and considering the extreme isolation he kept himself in, I could see where he could have a very poor understanding of what kind of boundaries should be kept between adults and children.  I can see where it's possible that certain parents decided to capitalize on his wealth, fame, and naivity.  Just saying...there are all kinds of possibilities as to what happened, and there was obviously not solid enough proof to convict.



You know I think that is very possibly the way it was.


Something that made me very suspicious at the time of the molestation charges is that the family of the boy accepted a settlement from Jackson.


If i had a child that had been molested by someone I would NEVER had taken money from that person. I would want that person in jail, not get his money.


To me that says that those people just saw a way to get money out of him nothing else.


Maya

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2009 - 11:01AM #35
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277

Maya... When he was prosecuted... You saw what happened...  How many people would be allowed the antics and misbehaviour that he pulled during that circus?


Not everyone has pockets deep enough to fight the lawyers he had.

James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2009 - 11:06AM #36
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277

Jun 26, 2009 -- 9:04AM, Svetlana wrote:


Jun 26, 2009 -- 7:59AM, Tmarie64 wrote:


Jun 25, 2009 -- 7:53PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


How do you KNOW nobody else can get into the ER?




DUH!  Because they SAID SO.  Did you not go to the link I provided?  Did you not read the quoted snippet?  Open your eyes, clean your glasses, it's right there in black and white.


Ignore the scandals?  Kate, you sound like the bishops of the Catholic church!



And given that this was the only hospital in LA, many emergency victims must have died.  Oh, for Pete's sake!  Don't be absurd!  When we lived in the LA area, my daughter fell face first off of playground equipment and bit all the way through her lip.  Her face and shirt were covered in blood.  We had to go to THREE emergency centers, because all of them were so busy.  My daughter's case was not that critical, but she clearly needed medical attention ASAP, and we were taken care of.  Whether the doors of that hospital were barred, or the halls were lined with the victims of one huge car accident (as they were in one of the hospitals I went to with my daughter), emergency care is available SOMEwhere in the LA area.  How much care could be given to genuine emergency victims in MJ's case, if the halls were blocked by curiosity seekers and paparazzi?


As to the scandals, you're certainly right that being cleared of charges, however completely, does not necessarily equate with innocence.  However, charges filed do not necessarily equate with guilt, as you are claiming.  Whether he did anything at all to those kids, he is facing a judge who knows exactly what happened, and he is enduring whatever consequences that perfect judge deems appropriate.


You've always struck me as reasonable, TMarie, don't let your hatred of MJ cloud that reason.




You've obviously never heard that in the case of a stroke... TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.   If a person with 5 blocks of this facility had a stroke, that person would be permanently damaged, and could very likely die, if they had to be transported to a facility further away.


I don't hate him... Never cared enough about him to hate him.  I'm just sick to death of the people who act like he was some great person who was deserving of more than anyone else.


 

James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2009 - 11:08AM #37
Maya3
Posts: 928

thats true.


But if your child was molested, would  you accept a settlement from the molester?


or would you want that person to be in jail so that he couldn't do it to someone else?


Maya

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2009 - 11:14AM #38
Svetlana
Posts: 11,295

Jun 26, 2009 -- 11:06AM, Tmarie64 wrote:


You've obviously never heard that in the case of a stroke... TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.   If a person with 5 blocks of this facility had a stroke, that person would be permanently damaged, and could very likely die, if they had to be transported to a facility further away.


I don't hate him... Never cared enough about him to hate him.  I'm just sick to death of the people who act like he was some great person who was deserving of more than anyone else.



I'll agree that people were denied necessary medical care if you can prove that that actually happened.  Given the population of LA, the idea that NOONE near the hospital had a stroke yesterday is absurd.  If you can prove that they suffered because medical care that would otherwise have been available was denied them, then I'll join you in outrage.  If you can find no case, then, given that stroke victims were certainly there, you'll have to admit that they got the care they needed.


You must also show that everyone within five blocks of that hospital that has needed immediate care got it when there was no blockage of the emergency doors, say for the entire week before yesterday, that there were no cases of people getting help too late at that hospital.  Not everyone gets the help they need in time, no matter where that need occurs.


I'm afraid that your hatred is too obvious to be denied, my dear.

"No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it."  ~ (common sense)

"Never place a period where God has placed a comma."  ~ Gracie Allen

"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it." ~ Abraham Lincoln

"I wonder sometimes if we ever give God a headache." ~ Dontay Hall, age 8
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2009 - 11:15AM #39
rabello
Posts: 21,297

Jun 26, 2009 -- 11:08AM, Maya3 wrote:


thats true.


But if your child was molested, would  you accept a settlement from the molester?


or would you want that person to be in jail so that he couldn't do it to someone else?


Maya




I don't think anyone can answer a hypothethical question like that until and unless they are in the situation to have to make such a decision.     Part of it would have to do with the odds of getting a conviction.  If the chances the the accused would be found "not guilty" it is reasonable to understand why the victim would accept a settlement.  


Seeing that the majority of the world overlooks and/or excuses the longstanding allegations of child abuse against Jackson, and the way his defense was able to destroy the child and his mother's testimonies, the chances of Jackson being convicted, on a second indictment in a span of what-was-it -- 10 years between the first and the second with completely different boys? -- was pretty slim.  


 

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2009 - 11:37AM #40
Merope
Posts: 9,870

Picking up (or maybe starting :-) another strand of this thread, cause of death is going to be an interesting issue here.


It appears that Jackson was taking a serious combination of prescription meds on a daily basis, including Zoloft, Xanax, and Demerol.  He reportedly had a Demerol shot shortly before he went into cardiac arrest.  It's not clear whether police have interviewed Jackson's personal physician, who apparently was there -- and attempting to revive Jackson -- when the paramedics arrived.  As soon as I read the latter bit of news yesterday, I wondered whether paramedics had been called immediately or whether there was a critical (and possibly fatal) lag between the time Jackson went into cardiac arrest and the time paramedics were called (and arrived). 


Jackson was also preparing intensively for his upcoming tour.  So he may have pushed his body to dangerous limits. 


 

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