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Switch to Forum Live View Banning the Burqua in France - Is Sarkozy going too far?
5 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2009 - 2:54PM #61
whirlinggal
Posts: 4,329

Jun 26, 2009 -- 3:24PM, IDBC wrote:


Howdy Adelphe


Jun 22, 2009 -- 12:44PM, Adelphe wrote:


Yes, he's going too far.  It's Islamophobic in the extreme.


Most women who wear them want to.



 


It is anti-burqa, but wether it is "Islamophobic" in the "extreme" is debatable. 


Islam enjoins women to dress modestly.  It is very vague on the details of exactly how modesty dress defined.   The wearing of Hijab-Veil varies from country to country to country.  It can be as simple as a headscarf that covers a women's hair to the burqa.  The burqa is commonly found in Pakistan and Afghanistan.    It was the dress code even before the Islamic religion was.....introduced. I would also add that the veiling of women existed in many cultures even before Muhammad made up the Islamic Religion. For further details on hijab


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab#Historical_a...cultural_explanations


 


 


Even in predominately Muslim countries there is a debate on hijab.  In Islamophobic Turkey there is a law that restricts the wearing of hijab. 


 


 


 


Jun 22, 2009 -- 12:44PM, Adelphe wrote:

Next, the Cross will be considered a symbol (and has been) of female oppression and will be banned.



Next thing is that in Islamophobic Turkey women will be required to wear tank tops, mini-skirts or hotpants. 


 


Jun 22, 2009 -- 12:44PM, Adelphe wrote:

"...But the movement against the wearing of the burqa has been slowly gathering force in France.



I have heard that even some Islamophobic Muslim Women who have assimalated into the liberal -facist French culture support the banning of the burqa.


In June 2008, the Council of State - the country's highest administrative court - refused to grant French citizenship to a Moroccan woman wearing a burqa, because it went against "the values of a democratic society and the principle of equality of the sexes."  (AWID)


Ironic, no?




No it is not. It does violate the principle of the equality of the sexes.  Men are not required to wear the burqa.


Have A Thinking Day And May Reason Bless You Smile




 


Yep--anyone who knows anything about Islam knows that the burqua isn't scriptural any mroe than shariah is scriptural.  But try telling that to the great unwashed who seem to only "know" about Islam what GW Bush told them.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2009 - 5:31PM #62
Adelphe
Posts: 28,736

Jun 28, 2009 -- 2:47PM, whirlinggal wrote:


Jun 22, 2009 -- 12:44PM, Adelphe wrote:


Yes, he's going too far.  It's Islamophobic in the extreme.


Most women who wear them want to.


Next, the Cross will be considered a symbol (and has been) of female oppression and will be banned.


"...But the movement against the wearing of the burqa has been slowly gathering force in France.


In June 2008, the Council of State - the country's highest administrative court - refused to grant French citizenship to a Moroccan woman wearing a burqa, because it went against "the values of a democratic society and the principle of equality of the sexes."  (AWID)


Ironic, no?




There's almost nothing in the above post that's true.


Coverings for women are CULTURAL--not religious.


And most women are pressured into wearing them.


 


And the "irony" is that someone who knows very little about the situation is criticizing a man who is trying to help all women be equal and free.


Thank goodness the FRENCH are better educated than that.



Vive la France!




What, WG, in the above post is not "true"?


You are in support of democratic and republic governments dictating what women are permitted to wear?


That sort of wear is what it means to dress modestly to some women.


Would you be in favor of Obama passing legislation to ban all one-piece and the upper piece of two-piece bathing suits for women here in the US in the guise of  "trying to help all women be equal and free"?


I didn't think so.

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2009 - 8:47PM #63
whirlinggal
Posts: 4,329

Adelphe says--


"What, WG, in the above post is not "true"?"


 


 


 


1) That the wearing of the burqua has anything to do with Islam--it does NOT. The burqua is a cultural phenomenon--NOT a religous one.


(Hence the banning of the burqua is NOT '"Islamaphobia.")


 


2) That the wearing of the burqua is "by women's choice." In many/most cases it is NOT.


 

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2009 - 9:11PM #64
Adelphe
Posts: 28,736

Jun 28, 2009 -- 8:47PM, whirlinggal wrote:


Adelphe says--


"What, WG, in the above post is not "true"?"


 


 


 


1) That the wearing of the burqua has anything to do with Islam--it does NOT. The burqua is a cultural phenomenon--NOT a religous one.



Are you aware of women who don the burqua who are not Islamic?


Really?


If so, then, would you deny them the right to wear one?


After you're through dictating that, are you going to support the banning of wigs for Orthodox Jewish women?


And when are you going to lobby for legislation banning the bikini top?

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2009 - 9:18PM #65
whirlinggal
Posts: 4,329

Jun 28, 2009 -- 9:11PM, Adelphe wrote:


Jun 28, 2009 -- 8:47PM, whirlinggal wrote:


Adelphe says--


"What, WG, in the above post is not "true"?"


 


 


 


1) That the wearing of the burqua has anything to do with Islam--it does NOT. The burqua is a cultural phenomenon--NOT a religous one.



Are you aware of women who don the burqua who are not Islamic?


Really?


If so, then, would you deny them the right to wear one?


After you're through dictating that, are you going to support the banning of wigs for Orthodox Jewish women?


And when are you going to lobby for legislation banning the bikini top?




 


None of the above Adelphe post addresses the issue that her previous post contained incorrect info about both Islam and the burqua.



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5 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2009 - 9:43PM #66
Adelphe
Posts: 28,736

Jun 28, 2009 -- 9:18PM, whirlinggal wrote:


 


None of the above Adelphe post addresses the issue that her previous post contained incorrect info about both Islam and the burqua.



Waiting...


Jun 28, 2009 -- 9:11PM, Adelphe wrote:


Are you aware of women who don the burqua who are not Islamic?



And, then, when you're not avoiding, maybe you can get around to this


Really?


If so, then, would you deny them the right to wear one?


After you're through dictating that, are you going to support the banning of wigs for Orthodox Jewish women?


And when are you going to lobby for legislation banning the bikini top?


Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2009 - 10:30PM #67
Ken
Posts: 33,859

The full burqa ensemble includes a veil. It is imprudent to allow people to go around in public with their faces hidden, especially when those people may be affiliated with terrorist organizations.  

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2009 - 10:56PM #68
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,572

France: Why banning the burqa won't work


"...I agree that the burqa is a symbol of fundamentalist oppression of women..."


"...But let's just consider how such a ban would be enforced. What are police supposed to do when they see a woman in a burqa? "Strip her? Handcuff her? Point at her and denounce her?" And if that woman is brought to court, is she supposed to be sentenced by a judge "who is himself garbed head to toe in a black robe?" How's that going to look...?"



A French journalist's viewpoint.


Freedom of expression and of religion is not just for those customs and beliefs acceptable to us -- it also must also include customs and beliefs we disagree with or dislike.  Otherwise there is no freedom of expression and religion. 


 

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2009 - 11:30PM #69
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Jun 28, 2009 -- 10:56PM, Mlyons619 wrote:

Freedom of expression and of religion is not just for those customs and beliefs acceptable to us -- it also must also include customs and beliefs we disagree with or dislike. 


As long as the face isn't covered.


 

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 29, 2009 - 3:27AM #70
whirlinggal
Posts: 4,329

Adelphe says--


"Waiting..."


 


I'm not. I gave up waiting for actual facts about Islam as it really is--and not as GW/Cheney  it is-- and about the actual cultural aspects of the burqua to appear in y0our posts some time ago.


Your posts + facts = lost cause.

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