How do you define Islamophobic?

An irrational fear of Islam.

 That's a debatable opinion rather than a fact....  Many women wear them because they feel pressured to do so.....  Women in the ME wear them because they're treated pretty terribly if they don't...  Since societal mores in Europe and other free countries expect MEN to control themselves and don't burden WOMEN with a male lack of self control, European and western men are generally better behaved than ME Muslim males. Women shouldn't have to succumb to this aspect of Sharia Law in a Pluralistic society in Europe.

We're talking about the West--France.  Most women if they wear one want to.

 We're not talking about crosses, we're talking about a TENT that restricts the movement of a woman..... We're talking about a PRISON.

It's only a "prison" if the woman in it feels it is one.  And even then, she has options to "get out of jail."

After we get rid of the crosses, we can strip the nuns of their habits and priests of their frocks.  Be sure to get rid of the kippah, a ghastly sign of submission to God.  No more saris, either.  And while we're at it, no more S&M type clothing--submissive and unequal dog collars and the like.  How about skirts?  Let's outlaw skirts--they say "woman"--how humiliating!

Come on!  You don't see anything wrong with dictating dress in a democracy or republic?

"...But the movement against the wearing of the burqa has been slowly gathering force in France.

In June 2008, the Council of State - the country's highest administrative court - refused to grant French citizenship to a Moroccan woman wearing a burqa, because it went against "the values of a democratic society and the principle of equality of the sexes."  (AWID)

Ironic, no?

Nope, she wasn't denied citizenship because she was wearing a burqua... she was denied citizenship because she refused to accept that women are equal in France. She refused to accept the secular laws in France that grant gender equality. She refused to assimilate to the societal, customary and legal mores of her new country. They were right to deny her citizenship.

First, I would like to see the souce backing up your claim.

Second, what is "refuse to accept that women are equal in France" supposed to imply?

Third, is it that only women who don't wear burqas can be considered equal and not those who choose to?

Finally, if refusal to "assimilate to the societal, customary, [and legal mores] of her new country" are criterion for being denied entry, then those that came before us and most of us here now should kiss the US goodbye.

Jun 22, 2009 -- 1:46PM, Ken wrote:

Jun 22, 2009 -- 1:20PM, Agnosticspirit wrote:

I completely agree, Ken.... a group of people are refusing to assimilate...

And it isn't just that they refuse to assimilate. If that were all, they might be tolerated in much the same way as we tolerate the Amish. But they aren't content to be separate from the mainstream of their host society. They want to change the host society. They hope to achieve through underhanded means what their ancestors failed to achieve through direct means in the eighth century - the conquest of Europe.

Spot on target, Ken...... if some of thereligious practices don't frighten a free people, the lack of recognition for the Separation of Church and State, religious freedom, freedom of speech certainly SHOULD.

Fortunately, there ARE progressive Muslims who have been "corrupted" by the West and want no part of Islamic Law in the public sphere.... These groups of westernized Muslims can be and are compatible with life in a pluralistic society... the more conventional, traditional Muslims are another matter entirely....

Jun 22, 2009 -- 1:00PM, leguru wrote:

It's Islamophobic in the extreme.

Islam does not require the burqua. The political tribal leaders who interpret Islam are the ones who require the burqua. It is not religious, it is political, and Sarkosy has the right, no, the mandate to express what a free society will and will not allow. Three cheers for Sarkosy!

Hello leguru, how are you? Whether the burqua is required or not is a pretty contentious topic among Muslims.... Some Muslims claim that "covering your adornments" was only meant for the wives of Muhammad..... others believe a scarf is sufficient, while others think women are supposed to walk around in a tent, as if they had something to be ashamed of.

Jun 22, 2009 -- 12:44PM, Adelphe wrote:

Yes, he's going too far.  It's Islamophobic in the extreme.

How do you define Islamophobic? This has many different meanings. Some define Islamophobia as anyone who criticizes their religion, while others more correctly define Islamophobia as those who criticize aspects of their religion that woud PROHIBIT human rights to religious freedom and gender equality. I tend to fall in the latter category.....

Jun 22, 2009 -- 12:44PM, Adelphe wrote:

Most women who wear them want to.

That's a debatable opinion rather than a fact....  Many women wear them because they feel pressured to do so.....  Women in the ME wear them because they're treated pretty terribly if they don't...  Since societal mores in Europe and other free countries expect MEN to control themselves and don't burden WOMEN with a male lack of self control, European and western men are generally better behaved than ME Muslim males. Women shouldn't have to succumb to this aspect of Sharia Law in a Pluralistic society in Europe.

Jun 22, 2009 -- 12:44PM, Adelphe wrote:

Next, the Cross will be considered a symbol (and has been) of female oppression and will be banned.

We're not talking about crosses, we're talking about a TENT that restricts the movement of a woman..... We're talking about a PRISON.

Jun 22, 2009 -- 12:44PM, Adelphe wrote:

"...But the movement against the wearing of the burqa has been slowly gathering force in France.

In June 2008, the Council of State - the country's highest administrative court - refused to grant French citizenship to a Moroccan woman wearing a burqa, because it went against "the values of a democratic society and the principle of equality of the sexes."  (AWID)

Ironic, no?

Nope, she wasn't denied citizenship because she was wearing a burqua... she was denied citizenship because she refused to accept that women are equal in France. She refused to accept the secular laws in France that grant gender equality. She refused to assimilate to the societal, customary and legal mores of her new country. They were right to deny her citizenship.

It's Islamophobic in the extreme.

Islam does not require the burqua. The political tribal leaders who interpret Islam are the ones who require the burqua. It is not religious, it is political, and Sarkosy has the right, no, the mandate to express what a free society will and will not allow. Three cheers for Sarkosy!