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Switch to Forum Live View Obama at Buchenwald: Holocaust Denial Is "Hateful"
9 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2009 - 7:01PM #11
Posts: 17,597

Jun 5, 2009 -- 2:12PM, Merope wrote:

"To this day there are those who insist that the Holocaust never happened, a denial of fact and truth that is baseless and ignorant and hateful," the President said, as he laid a single white rose at a memorial for the dead at the former Buchenwald concentration camp.  Obama was accompanied by Nobel Peace laureate Elie Wiesel (a Holocaust survivor) and German Chancellor Merkel.  Story here.

Obama further said that Buchenwald was the "ultimate rebuke" to those who deny or seek to minimize the Holocaust.

He said, "These sights have not lost their horror with the passage of time."  He also said, "More than half a century later, our grief and our outrage over what happened have not diminished.  I will not forget what I have seen here today."

As it happens, Obama's great-uncle helped liberate Ohrdruf, which was a sub-camp of Buchenwald.


In case anyone has forgotten the topic of this thread it is quoted above.  Surprised

DRESDEN, Germany — President Obama on Friday intensified his pledge to unlock the Middle East stalemate, sending an envoy next week to pursue his call for a two-state solution, as he toured a former concentration camp that he said served as a lesson to “be ever-vigilant about the spread of evil in our own time.”

Beliefnet Community Wide Moderator ~ Peace Love Stardove

People change for two main reasons: either their minds have been opened or their hearts have been broken.

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9 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2009 - 10:17PM #12
Posts: 16,967

Iron, the Kaiser had abdicated before the end of WW1, Bismark was long dead before 1900!!!, and the rest of your history leaves a lot to be desired. If you're going to support your opinions with history please at least get the history right!

And NOTHING mentioned by others in a really dumb attempt to hijack the thread topic, comes close to Hitler's holocaust against the Jews.

Obama did precisely the right thing and his words are both eloquesnt and on target... and I am NOT an Obama supporter. But when he does us American proud, as he has done the past several days, he damn well deserves credit for it!


Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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9 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2009 - 12:05PM #13
Posts: 10,165

I don't think we are in denial about what was done to Native Americans or to Japanese Americans.  At least, I was taught about it in school and the teaching was definitely critical of the US. The sadness, the horror was not spared my class.  We weren't in denial back then.

The thing about the Holocaust is that what has historically been done to Jews was just an ongoing  historical terror.  In the Middle Ages, they were routinely tortured in the most horrible ways and they were blamed for the Black Plague and tortured, executed in the most horrific manner. Males were hung with weights hung on their testicles.  That kind of thing.  All this bizarre cruelty was inflicted on these people and replicated in the death camps of the Nazis.  What is wrong with people?  People seem to have all this evil bubbling just under the surface and let there be a crisis, people turn into monsters.   The really horrifying thing is that it takes a lot of people going along with this stuff  to accomplish this horror.

It seems like during many historical crises, Jewish people were scapegoats.  So, much of it was done in the name of Christianity that I am not sure I consider Christianity a valid religion.   There is too much hate bubbling under the surface.  It almost seems, if you look at the history, as if it were the work of Satan and not Jesus.  That stuff was real. I will have to look up the number the numbers of Jewish folks tortured, it was an unbelievable number.  That kind of horror on such a large scale.  If that isn't evil, I don't know what is.  That makes the average psychopath look like a saint.


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9 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2009 - 11:43PM #14
Posts: 18,418

Perhaps this is slightly off topic - but I found Ironhold's sympathy for 'tweenwar' Germany quite distasteful. 

There seems little doubt that Germany was the aggressor in 1914 - so why shouldn't they have paid reparations?

And the use of German materiel in the Spanish civil war during the '30's rather puts the lie to 'poor prostrate Germany', I feel - how much 'butter' could all those guns have bought?  Not to mention that such activity was designed to circumvent the sanctions placed on Germany - and of course it also puts the lie to any fiction that Germany's leaders(Hitler & Co) were 'provoked' into embarking upon an attempt at world domination....

It always leaves me wondering whenever someone tries to 'balance' one of these discussions.  *sigh!*  At least we've so far been spared the revisionists who want to deny that thousands of German citizens (and some 'fellow travelers' in other nations!) enthusiastically participated in an attempt to wipe out a religion and a people. 

Maybe some day Obama will apologize for the State Dep'ts deliberate efforts to thwart the attempts by US citizens to get exit visas for their relatives in Germany and other Nazi-occupied lands?  

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9 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2009 - 2:27AM #15
Posts: 14,591

This thread was moved from the Hot Topics Zone.

Note that while a relaxed (site-wide) ROC standard applied to the discussion on that forum, the tighter forum ROCs -- together with all posting guidelines for this forum -- apply to discussion on this thread from this point forward.

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9 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2009 - 9:03PM #16
Posts: 9,116

Yet the point is that there are many, many atrocities even in America that need to be recognized - Haun's Mill; the persecution of JWs, Amish, and Mennonites for being COs; the Japanese internment camps - that people don't want to talk about because it would force them to actually discuss the unpleasant side of American history and that some of the "politically incorrect" groups here in the US suffered as well.


It may have something to do with the way Ariel Sharon saw it:

“Don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it.”


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