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Switch to Forum Live View Movement to take Jesus off the cross.
3 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2011 - 9:19PM #11
christine3
Posts: 6,638

Aug 16, 2011 -- 8:22PM, Gumby4jc wrote:

All is well.  No hard feelings at all.  I can only guess what you may have faced from those who claim to be Christians but have no true love in their heart.  I can respect you without agreeing with you.  





The Christians I have experienced are confused and think suffering feels good.  They think a lynched man on a cross is a painful beauty.  They are so conditioned by this world.

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2011 - 10:25PM #12
Gumby4jc
Posts: 10

"The Christians I have experienced are confused and think suffering feels good.  They think a lynched man on a cross is a painful beauty.  They are so conditioned by this world."


 


Suffering NEVER feels good.  Pain NEVER feels good.  You are RIGHT!!  As a man,  I have no TRUE right to speak about the pain of child birth.  The pain ends and that is ALL i meant.


 


As to suffering, I do believe my suffering can bring peace to others.  They can see that in their suffering, they are not alone and others understand their pain...


 


It is NOT that the pain that is beautiful!!!  It is in our ability to empathize with the pain & suffering of others, that our pain becomes beautiful!!!  We stop focus on our suffering, and help other with their suffering.  OUR suffering becomes less because the suffering of others becomes more important.

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 16, 2011 - 10:50PM #13
christine3
Posts: 6,638

Aug 16, 2011 -- 10:25PM, Gumby4jc wrote:

"The Christians I have experienced are confused and think suffering feels good.  They think a lynched man on a cross is a painful beauty.  They are so conditioned by this world."


 


Suffering NEVER feels good.  Pain NEVER feels good.  You are RIGHT!!  As a man,  I have no TRUE right to speak about the pain of child birth.  The pain ends and that is ALL i meant.


 


As to suffering, I do believe my suffering can bring peace to others.  They can see that in their suffering, they are not alone and others understand their pain...


 


It is NOT that the pain that is beautiful!!!  It is in our ability to empathize with the pain & suffering of others, that our pain becomes beautiful!!!  We stop focus on our suffering, and help other with their suffering.  OUR suffering becomes less because the suffering of others becomes more important.





If you think your suffering brings peace to others, that's what I mean when I said that the image of him on a cross sets a precedent for suffering.  It is good that you cannot bear the suffering in this world.  You will do something to change it, not only suffer it.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 9:11PM #14
Lookbeyond
Posts: 578

I believe the message of the cross and Christ's suffering excruciating pain for the sins of the world is not fully understood. It is an example to us that through Him we need not suffer for our own sins if we believe in Him and live by His teachings and keep His commandments. He only requires of us our belief in Him and our obedience and we will not have to suffer for our sins. 


 The other side of the coin infers, that those who do not accept Jesus Christ and learn obedience will suffer for their own sins as though no atonement was made, until justice is satisfied and mercy can have claim upon them. 


That people would take Jesus from the Cross, shows how little they truly understand the symbolism of His suffering for us. It appears to be one more attempt by those who would have this Nation reduced to a non-christian Nation, which Obama has already declared that we are "no longer a Christian Nation." I heard him speak these very words, as did many....but it doesn't get much press, nor do the words he spoke in the same address stating he is a "Muslim" and how his father lived in Kenya and Obama attended school there.......

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 11:30PM #15
christine3
Posts: 6,638
Look Beyond said:  I believe the message of the cross and Christ's suffering excruciating pain for the sins of the world is not fully understood.
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I believe that the Roman Catholic Church is a misguided assemblage of men who wrench guilt out of you 2,000 years later, for something you never did, by waving a lynched man on a cross at you.  And, at the same time, collecting your money.  The church teaches people to pray to an idol god.  Jesus taught that you are God(s).  Psalms 6:38, John 10:34. Don't worship an idol.  Stop praying and do these miracles yourself.  The Roman Catholic Church has made you as helpless while their money-making business continues.
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You said:  It is an example to us that through Him we need not suffer for our own sins if we believe in Him and live by His teachings and keep His commandments. He only requires of us our belief in Him and our obedience and we will not have to suffer for our sins.
__________
Breaking down one's wrong education, breaking wrong mental barriers, and rebuilding one's mind in the correct way of thinking, is what works.  Not more "follow, obey" what other people have told you what to think.
__________   
You said:  The other side of the coin infers, that those who do not accept Jesus Christ and learn obedience will suffer for their own sins as though no atonement was made, until justice is satisfied and mercy can have claim upon them.
__________
Children are obedient.  Catholic priests have historically taught people to see themselves as sons and daughters, and themselves as father.  This is a manipulation.  Rather, being a good person is about making correct choices and sometimes having to learn from mistakes.  In this world, people are not to learn obedience like children, but to learn the difference between right and wrong and understand why it is better to build than destroy.  There are rules and laws in place to help people know what healthy boundaries are, and how to make right decisions that direct their lives and the community in which they live.
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You said: That people would take Jesus from the Cross, shows how little they truly understand the symbolism of His suffering for us. It appears to be one more attempt by those who would have this Nation reduced to a non-christian Nation, which Obama has already declared that we are "no longer a Christian Nation." I heard him speak these very words, as did many....but it doesn't get much press, nor do the words he spoke in the same address stating he is a "Muslim" and how his father lived in Kenya and Obama attended school there......
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Well, I disagree.  If you were in the South 70 years ago, would you enjoy seeing your grandfather, grandmother, father, mother, aunt, uncle, cousin, brother, sister, or your child on a cross (lynched)?  No, you would not like to see it.  You should not like to see Jesus on a cross now, and should not consider it a good "example" which manipulates you into being a good person.  Being a good, kind, intelligent person should be one's choice because it is right.  Raising one's consciousness, petitioning, exposing wrong and passing laws, is what changes a world of confusion and wrongs.  Not doing right because you are afraid of suffering.

You are not seeing the whole picture; you have *blind* spots.  Christians are capable of doing horrible things too, just like any other person of another country or religion.  Criminality is a mental health problem if it is anything.  Look at what the Roman Catholic Church has done since EXTREMELY recently...killing to spread the Christian religion, stealing land and holdings from people through manipulation or force, at the same time preaching love your neighbor (ha!), enabling and covering up rape, while living the high life without accountabliity.  Petitioning and getting laws passed has changed that behavior.

There is room and freedom for every religion in this country, Christianity being one of them.  If people are of the mind that they must go to church on a regular basis to be a conscienced person, then let them.  You are twisting things to your way of thinking when you say:  "which Obama has already declared that we are "no longer a Christian Nation." I heard him speak these very words, as did many....but it doesn't get much press, nor do the words he spoke in the same address stating he is a "Muslim" and how his father lived in Kenya and Obama attended school there..." 

What's wrong with his father living in Kenya?  I'd like to live in Kenya someday.  Do you think people from Kenya are subhuman?  Are you racist?  The very fact that a person of color could be president in a predominantly white country is a great step for this country, even though he can't do much because we are living in a time where money greedy people would rather hang onto their empires than do good in the world.  The American system needs an overhaul.  Change needs the right ingredients.  Sometimes the pantry is bare.  It is the end of the old cycle and the beginning of a new one.
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3 years ago  ::  Oct 02, 2011 - 11:49PM #16
loveontheair
Posts: 4,057

Hello,


 


Christine...


Those who are His know that He is no longer on the Cross. He's in my heart. Believer's know this and it poses no problem with most of them. Only the Catholics have these Crosses. I find it odd that you have a grapple with this. Put it aside and move on. The God who made the Heavens, the Earth, the Seas and the Springs of Waters would like you to move on as well. These practices of Rome go back Centuries.


 


love


 


 

Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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3 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2011 - 8:27AM #17
christine3
Posts: 6,638

Oct 2, 2011 -- 11:49PM, loveontheair wrote:

Hello,


 


Christine...


Those who are His know that He is no longer on the Cross. He's in my heart. Believer's know this and it poses no problem with most of them. Only the Catholics have these Crosses. I find it odd that you have a grapple with this. Put it aside and move on. The God who made the Heavens, the Earth, the Seas and the Springs of Waters would like you to move on as well. These practices of Rome go back Centuries.


 


love


 


 





I am planting a seed here.  You want heaven on earth.  Make it so.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2011 - 8:53AM #18
christine3
Posts: 6,638
If people want heaven on earth, they should stop tolerating this visual image of a human being (Jesus) hanging on a cross.  It teaches you to accept sufferingly as he accepted suffering.  First of all, he did not accept suffering as you were taught.  He was lynched and murdered.

There are millions of images of pain/suffering in our mentalscape.  See them for what they are.  Jesus would not like to be remembered this way.  He gets peoples' thoughts when they think of him suffering on a cross.  This image is a manipulation.  Jesus taught freedom from mental manipulations. 

Do you remember when you were a child, what it felt like to see Jesus lynched on a cross?  If you saw it in a church, do you remember the shock and confusion?  You were told the church was a wonderful place by your parents, but then you saw that.  It is like being told you are going to Disney Land, but when you get there you see a person mutilated and bloody on a cross.  Did you bury the horror of that image and learn to see it as something beautiful?  It is NOT beautiful.  Learn to see it for what it truly is.  It is part of the mentalscape of accepted suffering on this planet; it manipulates you into thinking that suffering is okay and necessary.  It is neither. 

The heaven you want for this earth was taken from you.  I am not saying to stop following Jesus' teachings of love, but only to remove this image of suffering you identify with as beautiful.  No suffering is beautiful, no crime like this is beautiful, we should not forgive evil, evil should have no pardon.  It is okay to forgive some things, not everything.  Jesus said, "The kingdom is in front of you, you don't see it."  What keeps people from seeing it?  Their consciousness.

Once you set your mind on not tolerating pain anymore, this world can begin to change.  He had come to bring this world up to freedom from every kind of manipulation of control.  It is finally time to do this now.
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 18, 2011 - 4:15AM #19
bellybeans
Posts: 26

It's about time to carry the cross Jesus Christ have carried. 

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 05, 2012 - 10:40AM #20
christine3
Posts: 6,638

Dec 18, 2011 -- 4:15AM, bellybeans wrote:

It's about time to carry the cross Jesus Christ have carried. 





The metaphor not okay, it causes problems psychologically for people.  And not only that, as I said before, at some level people are made to suffer for what people did 2,000 years ago, and when you continually see him in your mind that way, at some level he has to fight your image of him in that condition.  In a sense it is keeping him in a certain prison.  You should not want to see him that way, you should not accept it that he is presented to you that way.  You should throw that image of him off.

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