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3 years ago  ::  Mar 16, 2015 - 10:45PM #1
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 1,349

I plan to go to a Meetup:  www.meetup.com/Living-and-Walking-Philos...


The subect of it is "Dalai Lama and the genuine teachings of Buddhism!"


I am skeptical of the "genuine" part.  


I do know a little about Buddhism.  


I know that there is a variety of Buddhists beliefs and schools. 


I do not think it is possible to determine was is "genuine"  Buddhism.  


Do you agree or disagree?

I could be wrong.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2015 - 3:42PM #2
Utilyan
Posts: 7,300

Mar 16, 2015 -- 10:45PM, TRUECHRISTIAN wrote:


I plan to go to a Meetup:  www.meetup.com/Living-and-Walking-Philos...


The subect of it is "Dalai Lama and the genuine teachings of Buddhism!"


I am skeptical of the "genuine" part.  


I do know a little about Buddhism.  


I know that there is a variety of Buddhists beliefs and schools. 


I do not think it is possible to determine was is "genuine"  Buddhism.  


Do you agree or disagree?





Its possible.


The goal is enlightenment which is a perpetual effortless meditation.


Meditation meaning fully aware and awake not some mystic trance or mumbo jumbo.


 


 


Using a circle,  I think you are very likely to find at the very center of all schools is The FOUR FOUNDATIONS OF MINDFULNESS.      Its the piece of work the buddha gave thats uniquely buddhist.   This circle is surrounded by the Four Noble Truths.   And that circle is surrounded by every sect and school of buddhism.


 


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2015 - 6:27PM #3
TRUECHRISTIAN
Posts: 1,349


Mar 16, 2015 -- 10:45PM, TRUECHRISTIAN wrote:


I plan to go to a Meetup:  www.meetup.com/Living-and-Walking-Philos...


The subect of it is "Dalai Lama and the genuine teachings of Buddhism!"


I am skeptical of the "genuine" part.  


I do know a little about Buddhism.  


I know that there is a variety of Buddhists beliefs and schools. 


I do not think it is possible to determine was is "genuine"  Buddhism.  


Do you agree or disagree?




Mar 30, 2015 -- 3:42PM, Utilyan wrote:



Its possible.


The goal is enlightenment which is a perpetual effortless meditation.



Or the goal of meditation is enlightment-awakening


Mar 30, 2015 -- 3:42PM, Utilyan wrote:


Meditation meaning fully aware and awake not some mystic trance or mumbo jumbo.



I have heard t there are a variety of meditations each with a different goal.   


The goal of Mindful Meditation is to be fully aware.   


I would certainly agree that meditition is not mumbo jumbo.  


I don't think I said any such thing. 




 


 

Mar 30, 2015 -- 3:42PM, Utilyan wrote:


Using a circle,  I think you are very likely to find at the very center of all schools is The FOUR FOUNDATIONS OF MINDFULNESS.      Its the piece of work the buddha gave thats uniquely buddhist.   This circle is surrounded by the Four Noble Truths.   And that circle is surrounded by every sect and school of buddhism.


 


 


 




I would certainly agree that the Four Noble Truths are at the center, the core of all the different schools of Buddhism.    You could no more be a Buddhist without the Four Noble Truths, than you could be a Muslim withrout the Five Pillars Of Islam. 


But my question was which if any of the schools of Buddhism is most genuine, the closest to what the Buddha taught and practiced. 


I don't think that can be determined. I would think that the oldest school is the most probably the closest.


However it may not even matter, so long as the end goal is reached. 


It may be that the different schools work better for different indivuals or even cultures.


It is my understanding that the end goal is enlightment-nirvana. 

I could be wrong.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2015 - 10:10PM #4
etoro
Posts: 595

The school of Buddhism that is most genuine is the school of Buddhism founded by Shakyamuni Buddha himself. It is the teaching expounded by the Buddha concerning his own true self nature as an enlightened being; the way in which the Buddha percieved his own true identity.  In this way the Buddha simultaneously revealed the true self nature of all beings.  The true self nature, the Buddha nature inherent in all living beings is expounded in the Sad Dharma Pundarika Sutra bettwer known as the Lotus Sutra. 


It is taught that the Buddha engaged in essentially two types of teachings. Teachings for the conversion of others and the Buddha's own self practice. When it came time to expound the Buddha's own self practice, the Buddhe expounded the Lotus Sutra. Since the Buddha's own self practice is the self practice of all Buddhas itself, this teaching became the self practrice of all Buddhas.  BY the time the Buddha came around to preaching the Lotus Sutra, after 42 years of preaching for the sake of others, The Buddha came to share the true wisdom that can only be shared between a Buddha and another Buddha.  This signfied that the time had come to expound and share between them the oneness of mentor and disciple, the true teaching by which all Buddha's are awakened.  This is the gereat ceremony of the Lotus Sutra and the true enlightenment of all beings.  


In the preceding 42 years the Buddha taught the preperatory teachings. These preparatory teachings are known as the four teachings of practice and the four teachigs of method.  All together the Chinese scholars over a period of 600 years of debate concluded that the BUddha expounded his teachings over a fivefold period,  These are known as the 1) period of sudden enlightenment, the period of gradual development or 2) hinayana and 3) introductory mahayana, the period known as the 4) wisdom period where the Buddha refutes any distinction between hinayana and mahayana and the Lotus - NIrvana period where the Buddha taches that all people are inherently Buddha's and can attain enlightenment just as they are.  


Among the many virtues of the Buddha's life there are four virtues which are most ourtstanding and most fundamental. These are the virtues of purity, true self, eternal life and true happiness. Among the many teachings or sutras expounded by the Buddha, the Lotus Sutra contains the most profound and authoritive statements concerning the Buddha's own true self identity as a supremely awakened being, his true relationship with all his disciples, the true relationship between the Buddha and all beings generally and the very Sad Dharma, the universal mystic law of cause and effect itself, the path to which all universally awakened beings awaken.


The way of the bodhisattva is the same as this. As long as a person has not yet heard, not yet understood, and not yet been able to practice this Lotus Sutra, then you should know that that person is still far away from supreme perfect enlightenment. But if the person is able to hear, understand, ponder, and practice the sutra, then you should know that he can draw near to supreme perfect enlightenment. Why? Because all bodhisattvas who attain supreme perfect enlightenment in all cases do so through this sutra. This sutra opens the gate of expedient means and shows the form of true reality. This storehouse of the Lotus Sutra is hidden deep and far away where no person can reach it. But now the Buddha, teaching, converting, and leading to success the bodhisattvas, opens it up for them."


Bear in mind that the one unconditional wisdom, wisdom that is not dualistic in nature can not be verbally expressed in and of itself for the interactions of all beings is inherently dualistic. The interaction of all Buddha's however are always of one being. This is why in the second chapter of the Lotus Sutra the Buddha states. 


At that time the world-honored one calmly arose from his samadhi and addressed Shariputra, saying: “The wisdom of the buddhas is infinitely profound and immeasurable. The door to this wisdom is difficult to understand and difficult to enter. Not one of the voice-hearers or pratyekabuddhas is able to comprehend it.


“What is the reason for this? The buddhas have personally attended a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand, a million, a countless number of buddhas and have fully carried out an immeasurable number of buddhas’ ways and doctrines. They have exerted themselves bravely and vigorously, and their names are universally known. They have realized the Law that is profound and never known before, and preach it in accordance with what is appropriate, yet their intentions are difficult to understand.






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3 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2015 - 2:41PM #5
Bhakta_glenn
Posts: 973
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3 years ago  ::  May 23, 2015 - 4:16PM #6
etoro
Posts: 595

Thank you Glen, a very insightful web site.  But please bear in mind that there is no inconsistency between the material offered by the materials in this web site and the principles and wisdom of the Lotus Sutra.  The Lotus Sutra embodies the heart of the Buddha's enlightenment.  Proof of this is even born out by the proof offerings in the book by the Venerable Narada Mahathera on page 23 where, quoting the Buddha, when asked by a passing merchant who is the Buddha, the Buddha answers by stating the following,


As a Lotus, fair and lovely, by the water is not soiled, by the world am I not soiled, therefore Brahmin am I Buddha.  


The essence of the Lotus Sutra is derived from the essential meaning embodied by these words uttered by the Buddha.  Yet the purpose of the Lotus Sutra was left so that such a wisdom can be realized by al people in the latter day of the law.  This why in chapter 15 of the Lotus Sutra, the disciples who emerge from "beneath the Earth" are given the same designation where it states,


 At that time the Buddha said to the bodhisattvas mahasattva: “Leave off, good men! There is no need for you to protect and embrace this sutra. Why? Because in this saha world of mine there are bodhisattvas mahasattvawho are as numerous as the sands of sixty thousand Ganges Rivers, and each of these bodhisattvas has a retinue equal to the sands of sixty thousand Ganges Rivers. After I have entered extinction these people will be able to protect, embrace, read, recite, and widely preach this sutra.”


When the Buddha spoke these words, the earth of all the billion lands of the saha world trembled and split open, and out of it emerged at the same instant immeasurable thousands, ten thousands, millions of bodhisattvas mahasattva. The bodies of these bodhisattvas were all golden in hue, with the thirty-two features and an immeasurable brightness. Previously they had all been dwelling in the world of empty space underneath the saha p.253world. But when these bodhisattvas heard the voice of Shakyamuni Buddha speaking, they came up from below.


Each one of these bodhisattvas was the leader of his own great assembly, and each brought with him a retinue equal in number to the sands of sixty thousand Ganges Rivers.



In explaining the meaning of this chapter NIchiren states,


 The sutra says, “[They are] unsoiled by worldly things like the lotus flower in the water. Emerging from the earth . . .” Here we see that the Bodhisattvas of the Earth are the lotus of the entity of the Mystic Law, and that the lotus is being used here as a simile. But I will write to you about this again at some future time.



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2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2015 - 3:00AM #7
Bhakta_glenn
Posts: 973

Thanks Etoro,


As I have no experience of NIchiren Buddhism, I do not quote it.


I only write about the things I know from experience:



Be what you profess to be. Speak what you intend to do. Utter what you have experienced. No more. No less.


I am taught in the context of this Theravadin Buddhist Training Rule for Right Speech.



As a Buddhist student, I was taught directly by Dr Rewata Dhamma





SAYADAW Dr.REWATA DHAMMA
1929-2004



Sayadaw Dr.Rewata Dhamma was born in Myanmar in December 1929 and was brought up in the rural village of Thamangol in the Hanthada District on the banks of the Irrawaddy. Entering the monastery as a young novice, he took full monastic ordination at the age of 20. After studying Theravada Buddhism under several eminent scholar monks, he passed the highest examination in scriptural studies at the age of 23 and was awarded the prestigious title of Sasanadhaja-siripavara dhammacariya in 1953. The following year he was among those helping during the Sixth General Sangha Council held in Yangon to establish the scriptures. In 1956, he went to India to study Hindi and Sanskrit as a state scholar, and then continued to study Indian philosophy and Mahayana Buddhism in Varanasi University. He obtained an MA in Sanskrit in 1964 and a PH.D in 1967. 







Dr Rewata Dhamma designed my spiritual path, he created it for it never existed before I began to practise it. He trained my Buddhist Precptor and arranged to have me attend a Hindu Temple for lessons in Sanskrit.



Such things I know so  I post them here on Beliefnet, and I miss the part which says that I am not alowed to discuss my bona fide Vajrayana Buddhist Pracitce as a Bodhisattva and refer to it as being genuine.



May I offer my sincere respect to the SGI and Nichren Buddhist Schools



Best wishes, Bhakta_Glenn
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2015 - 8:28PM #8
Karma_yeshe_dorje
Posts: 14,245

This is about the No True Scotsman logical fallacy.


Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus likes sugar with his porridge."
Person A: "Ah yes, but no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman#E...

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2015 - 3:04AM #9
Bhakta_glenn
Posts: 973


This is about the No True Scotsman logical fallacy.


Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus likes sugar with his porridge."
Person A: "Ah yes, but no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman#E...




Karma_Yeshe_Dorje,


Actually, these posts represent two sides of an argument which arose at the Second Buddhist Council in which a major schism in Buddhism occurred. From this Schism there has arisen both the Theravada School of Buddhism and the Mahayana School of Buddhism from the Yasatthera Sangiti and the Mahasangiti, respectively.


www.urbandharma.org/udharma/councils.htm...


Theravada means Doctrine of the Elders and it does not mean Hinayana.


These Buddhist Terms:


'Four Noble Truths, Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, Tathagata and Samyaksambuddha, Bodhisattva Nirvana and Sunyata and Enlightenment, and Buddhahood and Arahat'


are fundamentally important to both Buddhist Schools and Traditions. However, in these two remaining Schools of Buddhism, they have radically different meanings and refer to entirely different things.


At best any discussion on this topic is no more than an ignornat argumet at cross-purposes.


Bu just so that you know:


In my case, I actually do practice Theravada Buddhism and have used it as a foundation for Mahayana Buddhist practice. But pure Theravada Buddhism was never intended to provide foundation practices for the Mahayana. It is a stand-alone Faith teaching authentic Buddhism. But to state this is not to simultaneously state that Mahayana Buddhism is not genuine.


There is actually only one way that one may test either school of Budhdism and that is to follow the Buddha's own advice, practice them under qualified guidance and when enlightened, then make comparisons and comments.


Theravada Buddhism is not represented in the Lotus Sutra because that Sutra was not included at the First Buddhist Council and is not in the Theravada Doctrine of the Elders.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2015 - 9:17AM #10
Karma_yeshe_dorje
Posts: 14,245

Thank you, Bhakta_glenn:


Last night I attended a Dharma talk by a teacher in the universalist/eclectic Rimé school. Having just been ejected by a socialist party, I have more interest in personal development.


In academia, territories were defined by conceptual watersheds between subjects. Yet I learned in adult-education school, that it was best to first identify where the learner was coming from. So I could say that rather than selecting the real McCoy physics--for an earthy student, perhaps practical mechanics might seem truer to their nature!

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