Apr 27, 2012 -- 8:50AM, Bhakta_glenn wrote:

Alan-UK

In response to your question: Praying to What?

This thread is asking what is being prayed to. It may be pertinent to show an actual prayer to a Buddha of the Mahayana, to gain insight into what the practice of praying is about in Tibetan Buddhism:

 

Apr 27, 2012 -- 8:50AM, Bhakta_glenn wrote:

Alan-UK

In response to your question: Praying to What?

This thread is asking what is being prayed to. It may be pertinent to show an actual prayer to a Buddha of the Mahayana, to gain insight into what the practice of praying is about in Tibetan Buddhism:

 

Prayers to Buddha's of the Mahayana?  This idea is illogical and makes no common sense in this modern age. It amounts to superstition and supernaturalism. It basically presents a very limited understanding of the principles of Mahayana Buddhism.   This idea may have been acceptable during the feudal age but the intellectual treatises developed over the course of 2000 years spanning across India- China and Japan have yielded much deeper insight into the Buddha's true intentions and his own inner stabilized practice and observation of the Sad Dharma. The accomplished masters of Chinese and Japanese Buddhism throughout the first 1500 years after the Buddha's passing clearly indicate that the deepest teaching of Buddhism reveal the Buddha's true intentions. The conventional intellectuals of the western world have yet to understand much of this history since they are suffering the deep distress and denial of the contradictions in their own ancient belief systems. I have already shared some of the principles of true Buddhism earlier on this thread but it appears to have fallen on deaf ears.

"The views being expressed about prayers to Buddhas in the Mahayana being illogical, fuedal and superstitious bear no resmblence to Tibetan Budhdism. Neither do they reflect the Noble Wisdom of the Sacred Kagyu Tradition of Mahayana Buddhism.

"Therefore, to give greater insight into prayer in Kagyu Tibetan Buddhism, I have included three videos on the subject of the Vajradhara [Buddha] Lineage Prayer by the Karmapa:"

----------------------------------------

That's nice Bakta but I can draw forth uddles of proof from the Lotus Sutra itself to prove to you that these vajrayana  teachings are in conflict with the great events, the ceremony where Shakyamuni Buddha unfolds the true nature of his true idenitity as a person whose life is one with the universal Sad Dharma in company with all the emenation Buddha's, all of which make obeisance and pay homage to Shakyamuni Buddha in his true identity.  It is only this Shakyamuni Buddha and the disciples and successors whom he identifies in this sutra that are the proper teachings, teachers and successors of Buddhism flowing into this time period in the world. There is certainly proof within the sutras supporting the role and time for the appearances of Bodhisattva's Avalokiteshvara, Mahasattva's Manjushiri and even Maitreya and so forth. But there is no teacher of Buddhism that surpasses the merits obtained by Shakyamuni Buddha and his true disciples who attained enlightenment in the truly remotest past. This teaching is taught in the Lotus Sutra.

We, the disciples of Nichiren Daishoning (the great sage Sun Lotus)  have been thoroughly trained in all these matters of Buddha's wisdom, all the various teachings and methods and the merits they contain.  Follow the sutras not persons.  

The great Chinese and Japanese sages teach that only the sutras are to be relied upon and constitute the only true authority in the Buddhist philosophy and only those traditions which have a mastery concerning the order of sutras and the various wheels of doctrine; a correct understading of that which is provisional and that which is true within Buddhist philosophy can actually guide people correctly and lead all people to Buddhahood.  This was the very purpose for which the Lotus Sutra was set forth.   

The four main traditions of Tibetan BUddhism engage in the debates initiated between Bhavaviveka, Buddhapalita, Chadrakirti, Kamalashita, Malarepa and the various other Siddhis of Nalanda Monastery. These teachings incurr the debates regarding the true aspect of all phenomena as they were articulated by the Sautrantika, Yogacharra, Mahdyamaka and Dharani's found in the Six Paramitas Sutras. They do not engage in the principles of the Lotus Sutra where the Buddha Shakyamuni himself draws forth his transcendental power to explain the Buddha's methods of expedient means, the true relationship between the provisional (temporal) approach to awakening and the (non-temporal) ever present universal truth or true aspect of all phenomena, the principle of the mutual inclusive relationship between the state of Buddhahood and the lower nine worlds, the correct teaching which leads directly to non-temporal awakening in a single lifetime and the all encompassing wisdom of the opening up and transmission of a Buddha's transcendental wisdom regarding the true nature of a single moment of manifest existence.  Nothing stated in the video's above surpass these prindciples of wisdom. They are only restating them in so many words and traditions within their own historical transmissions.

In accordance with the Buddha's transcendental wisdom recorded in the Lotus Sutra, only the causal Law planted in the depth of the Buddha's ceremony of transmission has the universal power to change poison into medicine and lead all people to Buddhahood in this deeply impure age of the Latter Day of the Law.  

Only through a series of thorough going deep study and practice can one come to understand the true meaning of these matters.

May 4, 2012 -- 3:35PM, etoro wrote:

"The views being expressed about prayers to Buddhas in the Mahayana being illogical, fuedal and superstitious bear no resmblence to Tibetan Budhdism. Neither do they reflect the Noble Wisdom of the Sacred Kagyu Tradition of Mahayana Buddhism.

"Therefore, to give greater insight into prayer in Kagyu Tibetan Buddhism, I have included three videos on the subject of the Vajradhara [Buddha] Lineage Prayer by the Karmapa:"

----------------------------------------

That's nice Bakta but I can draw forth uddles of proof from the Lotus Sutra itself to prove to you that these vajrayana  teachings are in conflict with the great events, the ceremony where Shakyamuni Buddha unfolds the true nature of his true idenitity as a person whose life is one with the universal Sad Dharma in company with all the emenation Buddha's, all of which make obeisance and pay homage to Shakyamuni Buddha in his true identity.  It is only this Shakyamuni Buddha and the disciples and successors whom he identifies in this sutra that are the proper teachings, teachers and successors of Buddhism flowing into this time period in the world. There is certainly proof within the sutras supporting the role and time for the appearances of Bodhisattva's Avalokiteshvara, Mahasattva's Manjushiri and even Maitreya and so forth. But there is no teacher of Buddhism that surpasses the merits obtained by Shakyamuni Buddha and his true disciples who attained enlightenment in the truly remotest past. This teaching is taught in the Lotus Sutra.

We, the disciples of Nichiren Daishoning (the great sage Sun Lotus)  have been thoroughly trained in all these matters of Buddha's wisdom, all the various teachings and methods and the merits they contain.  Follow the sutras not persons.  

The great Chinese and Japanese sages teach that only the sutras are to be relied upon and constitute the only true authority in the Buddhist philosophy and only those traditions which have a mastery concerning the order of sutras and the various wheels of doctrine; a correct understading of that which is provisional and that which is true within Buddhist philosophy can actually guide people correctly and lead all people to Buddhahood.  This was the very purpose for which the Lotus Sutra was set forth.   

The four main traditions of Tibetan BUddhism engage in the debates initiated between Bhavaviveka, Buddhapalita, Chadrakirti, Kamalashita, Malarepa and the various other Siddhis of Nalanda Monastery. These teachings incurr the debates regarding the true aspect of all phenomena as they were articulated by the Sautrantika, Yogacharra, Mahdyamaka and Dharani's found in the Six Paramitas Sutras. They do not engage in the principles of the Lotus Sutra where the Buddha Shakyamuni himself draws forth his transcendental power to explain the Buddha's methods of expedient means, the true relationship between the provisional (temporal) approach to awakening and the (non-temporal) ever present universal truth or true aspect of all phenomena, the principle of the mutual inclusive relationship between the state of Buddhahood and the lower nine worlds, the correct teaching which leads directly to non-temporal awakening in a single lifetime and the all encompassing wisdom of the opening up and transmission of a Buddha's transcendental wisdom regarding the true nature of a single moment of manifest existence.  Nothing stated in the video's above surpass these prindciples of wisdom. They are only restating them in so many words and traditions within their own historical transmissions.

In accordance with the Buddha's transcendental wisdom recorded in the Lotus Sutra, only the causal Law planted in the depth of the Buddha's ceremony of transmission has the universal power to change poison into medicine and lead all people to Buddhahood in this deeply impure age of the Latter Day of the Law.  

Only through a series of thorough going deep study and practice can one come to understand the true meaning of these matters.

Etoro,

With respect:

Prove what you like.

I know the power of the Vajrayana.

I also know the efficacy of Prayers in the Tibetan Buddhist Tradition.

My posts on Tibetan Buddhist Prayer have been offered in the context of Allan-UK's first post.

The Kagyu Lineage is unbroken from the Buddha Vajradhara to the 17th Gyalwa Karmapa, passed down from Preceptor to Disciple, through the ages.

By the asseveration of that Truth, I disagree with your views on the Vajrayana and Tibetan Buddhism.

The Lotus Sutra is the actual Buddhist philosophy which illuminates the effect that the powerful egocentric mindset of humanity will have on the teachings of the Buddha; how the power of the teachings and practices will be watered down and reduced to just another theoretical idealogy.  The teachings will be reinterpreted over time and place and will be coopted and controlled by politicians who are bent upon using the teachings for their own self promotion and soc ial status within Buddhist societies.  This is exactly what took place over the next one thousand five hundred years after the Buddha's passing. The Lotus Sutra provides the true remedy for all these deep seated ego functions such that it even censures Buddhist teachings which no longer have validity. This is why Buddhist philosophy has evolved from original tripitaka / hinayana to introductory Mahayana, Bodhisattavayana onto the one vehicle teaching and the divisions between exoteric Mahayana and esoteric vajrayana. The Lotus Sutra provides the deepest wisdom of the one vehicle ekayana or Buddhahood itself and stands in for the Buddha in this world in the period after his passing. The Lotus Sutra is the actual BUddha's heart of hearts. In this respect all schools of Buddhism must have the Lotus Sutra at their core of teachings if they are to be true to the Buddha's true intentions.   

The Lotus Sutra offers the recording of the dialogues where the Buddha prepares his disciples for future world after his passing.

"We entreat you not to be concerned
Because we will extensively teach
In the fearful, troubled world,
After the Buddha’s parinirvāṇa.
We will be patient
With those who are ignorant,
Those who disparage others with evil words,
Or who attack us with sticks and swords.
(Buddhist) Monks in this troubled world
Will have false wisdom
And be deceitful.
They will think they have attained

What they have not, and their minds
Will be full of conceit.
Then there will be those who dwell
In tranquil forests wearing rags,
With the thought that they alone practice the true path,
And who look down on those who lead worldly lives.
There will be those who teach the Dharma
To laypeople only out of greed for offerings,
Yet they will be respected in the world
As if they were arhats endowed with
The six transcendent powers.
The minds of such people are in error;
They are always thinking about worldly matters;
And they enjoy pointing out our faults,
Playing the role of the forest dwellers,
Thus they will say such things as:
All of these monks here
Teach heretical doctrines
Because they are greedy for profit!
They have fabricated this sutra
To deceive the people of the world,
And they explain this sutra
Out of desire for fame!
They always want to slander us
In the great assembly;
They slander us to the kings,
Ministers, brahmans, householders,
And to other monks, saying that we are evil.
They say:
These are people of false views
Who teach heretical doctrines.
Since we revere the Buddha,
We will be patient with their wickedness".

"In the troubled world of the Age of [the Decadent Dharma]
There are many fearful things.
People possessed by evil spirits
Will scorn and slander us.
But we shall wear the armor of patience"- LS ch13

This is why, as Nichiren teachings, before you endeavor to teach others the Buddha Way you should understand the times, the sequence of propogation, the peoples capacity and the nature of the country you preach in. In this way you will come to understand which teachings are proper, which have efficacy and whcih no longer have validity.  This is why I critiqued your blanket approach to proscribing teachings and practices to new students without a care for the important guidelines above. 

You should also beware of the way Buddhism has been plagerized within the Hindu faith. The "Wonderful Law - Myo-Ho" of the Buddha is not understood within the Hindu faith.  Also, it is not within the Karmic mission of the Tibetan Buddhist faith and its history to spread the wisdom of the Lotus Sutra.  As recorded in the Lotus Sutra this mission was given to Bodhisattva Visistacarita.

May 8, 2012 -- 6:21PM, Bhakta_glenn wrote:

Etoro,

The Lotus Sutra has no authority over Theravada Buddhism. Neither does it have any authority over Tibetan Buddhism.

From what you post, it would appear that you only read the Lotus Sutra, for that is the text that you consistently quote from.

Perhaps if you were to broaden your reading and seek out some alternative Teaching from other Buddhist Schools you may come to see that there are other bona-fide Paths to Enlightenment.

After all, where is the harm?

On previous occasions, you have adivsed me that you are an advanced student of Budddism. And, if that is true, then your Preceptor ought be able to afford you the necessary protection and guidance with regard to other Buddhist Teachings which you may then compare with your own School.

The Schools of Buddhism which I am involved with put Path before Doctrine, and insist that wisdom can only be communicated in silence.

Yoga is the cessation of the movements of consciousness.

Whislt I may fail to impress you with what I post here, that worries me not. The only time I would ever be concerned is if my Teacher had found me blameworthy of a root moral infraction; which I am most particular about.

Whilst you may not think so, I am well trained in both Buddhism and Brahmanism. for they have much in common.

However, I have also completed a comprehensive course of Training in Meditation and Yoga. And if my Preceptor had died yesterday, I could carry on seamlessly. I have been well trained in the Art of Mindfulness of my Path, and my Spiritual Needs. And I have also been well trained for listening to Dharma talks and for noting key words and phrases, sentences which apply to me, and which may be used for developing Meditation Stratagems and Plans.

Your notion that only Nichiren Buddhists can understand the Lotus Sutra is not generally taught or accepted in Buddhism as a whole.

Theravad Buddhism teaches a spiritual resposibility to study other Religions from a sincere motivation. Tibetan Buddhism also appears to have guided me to Brahmanism, under a similar spiritual responsibility.

The only thing that my Buddhist Teachers have ever said to me about Brahmanism is that they offer their thoughts of most profound respect to the Brahmins.

Bakta: 

Bakta:

The point of asserting the supremacy of the principle of the Lotus Sutra concerns the principle of establishing what is most universally true regarding the nature of reality in the truest sence within the philosophy of Buddhism. From the point of view of true Buddhist philosophy the cessation of conscousness is not the highest principle of wisdom and insight in Buddhism.  it is the starting point for the discernment of the natire of thoughts but not the discernment of the existence of the physical body and the objects resident in the environment of reality itself. The ascertaining of what is most universal in all of Buddhism, the true aspect of all phenomena,  has been the driving force behind all Buddhist debates since the very beginning. It is also the reason behind the emergence of all the various schools and phases of Buddhist philosophy.

Buddhist philosophy unfolds in the following manner.  There is the original Tripitaka of precepts. sutra and abhidharma. This amounts to the three types of learning of correct behavior, correct meditation and correct wisdom. The earliest Tripitaka is simply the outermost or most superfisial of all teachings within Buddhism and simply establishes the principle of the transience of all phenomena. It is a teaching directed at the Buddha's most immediate disciples and those whose karmic or sociological connection to the Buddha is the closest. These were his closest family, friends, friends of friends and acquantances.  This Tripitaka or threefold scheme falls short and becomes a point of contention when the principles of the Mahayana make their appearance in consciousness. This is something that the Buddha was well aware of but could not teach to his closest disciples immediately because of their deep inner attachments.  Buddhism divides from Hinayana to Mahayana, provisional Mahayana to true and complete Mahayana.

In setting forth a mapping or exposition on the true nature of reality and the cause and effect for the attainment of Buddhahood in this world Indian Buddhism sets forth the principles of the coarse and subtle selflessness of persons and the coarse and subtle selflessness of phenomena.  The schools identified by Tibetan masters which reflects these philosophical schools of thought are the adhidharma, sautrantika, yogacharra and madhyamaka. The Lotus Tendai and Nichiren schools of Sino-Japanese Buddhism are directly derived from the teachings of Nagarjuna. But due to the changing nature of the times the teachings of both Tien Tai and Nichiren are much deeper and more effective than the teachings of Nagarjuna.  

The Lotus Sutra itself is the complete Mahayana teaching and enfolds within it the essence of the provisional teaching, the true teaching and the true relationship between the two types of teaching. The true teaching is also divided between esoteric form and exoteric form. The Vajrayana is known as secret mantra and therefore is esoteric.  The Lotus Sutra is expounded for the sake of widespread propogation and the speedy enlightenment of all beings and is therefore exoteric. When the Buddha tells Ananda that he has revealed all his teachings during his lifetime and has accomplished his true purpose, the teaching he is referring to is the revelations of the Lotus Sutra. This is a well established certitude among the most well understood scholars of Buddhism, It is also stated in the Lotus Sutra itself.

The Lotus Sutra is the perfection of Buddha's most inner wisdom expressed in words. It contains within its deepest meaning and insight the most universal of all universal teachings of true awakeing in actual form and expression. When it comes to the issue of the sufferings of birth and death nothing surpasses the wisdom of the Lotus Sutra. Confusion in the world regarding this matter derives from the unenlightenment of sentient beings and their continuous slander of the correct law or deepest inner truth regarding the functions of existence and their undevelopment to live up to its tenets. The fundamental cause of all suffering is the slander and ignorance of the universal law that is revealed in the Lotus Sutra. All other Buddhist teachings are preparatory by comparison. Only by correctly practicing the revelation and praise of the true universal law or Myoho Renge Kyo can one reverse the karma that has created this confusion. 

All confusion regarding the deepest teaching of the Buddha derives from the weakness / impurity within sentient beings of their sense organs and the range of sense fields which they can percieve with their sense organs. This is due to negative karma alone. All negative karma leads to dullness of the sense organs and dullness of the sense organs means the inability to perceieve the Sad Dharma, the essential inner wisdom regarding self and phenomena.  In the end it is also karma that determines the kind of teaching and teacher one can encounter in this life.

To encounter the true teacher that can correctly practice and teach the Lotus Sutra, the revelation of the Buddha's deepest and far reaching truth correctly is the highest form of good fortune in the universe. This is because if one can encounter a correct teacher of the Buddha's Law one is absolutely certain to attain Buddhahood.   This is the most wonder of wonders in all Life and Reality.  

All teachings of whatever source like all the stream and rivers and smaller bodies of water in the world pour into the ocean of the Lotus Sutra and it is not rejected by the Buddhas Law. This is not my opinion but rather directly stated in the Lotus Sutra by Shakyamuni Buddha himself. 

“If there is anyone who pays homage to all the buddhas, great bodhisattvas,
pratyekabuddhas, and arhats by filling the great manifold cosmos with the seven
precious treasures, the merit of this person will not be equal to the surpassing
merit of one who receives and holds to even a single verse consisting of four
lines of the Lotus Sutra.
“O Nakṣatrarājasaṃkusumitābhijña! Just as the ocean is the greatest of
streams and rivers and of all waters, this Lotus Sutra is the most profound of
the sutras taught by the Tathāgatas. Just as Mount Sumeru is the greatest of
mountains—greater than Earth Mountain, Black Mountain, Mount Cakravāḍa,
Mount Mahācakra vāḍa, and the ten jeweled mountains—this Lotus Sutra is
the greatest of the sutras. Just as the moon is the greatest among all the stars,
this Lotus Sutra is the most illuminating of the thousands of koṭis of sutras.
Just as the sun destroys darkness, in the same way this sutra destroys the darkness
of erring thought. Just as the noble emperor is the best of all the kings,
this sutra is the noblest of all the sutras. Just as Śakra is the king of the thirtythree
devas, this sutra is the King of Sutras. Just as Great Brahma is the father
of all the sentient beings, in the same way this sutra is the father of all the
wise, the noble, those who have more to learn and those who do not, and those
in whom the thought of enlightenment has awakened. Just as those who have
entered the stream of the teaching (srota-āpannas), those who are to return
to this world once again (sakṛdāgāmins), those who are never to return (anāgā -
mins), arhats, and pratyekabuddhas are the best of all the common people, in
the same way this is the best of all the sutras taught by all the Tathāgatas,
bodhisattvas, or śrāvakas." LS ch23

The appearance of the Mahayana and the revelations of the Lotus Sutra are designed to address access to the pure source of Buddha wisdom in the period after the Buddha's passing and particularly in the evil age of the latter age of the Buddha Dharma. This is evident from the content of the Lotus Sutra itself where one finds numerous references and teachings within the spread of Buddhism in the latter ages after the passing of the Buddha in numerous worlds throughout the cosmos.