| 5 years ago :: Sep 16, 2008 - 10:56PM #51 | |
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BG states: Dr Rewata Dhamma taught Buddhism in exact accordance with the Sixth Buddhist Council. The latest Scholarship has no value in Theravadin Buddhist Ariya Sangha's Teaching of the Dhamma.
However this:
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| 5 years ago :: Sep 18, 2008 - 4:38AM #52 | |
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[QUOTE=brburl;765711]BG states: Dr Rewata Dhamma taught Buddhism in exact accordance with the Sixth Buddhist Council. The latest Scholarship has no value in Theravadin Buddhist Ariya Sangha's Teaching of the Dhamma.
However this: has not a thing to do with the Sixth Buddhist Council or the Theravadin Buddhist Ariya Sangha's Teaching of the Dhamma. It is an old European scholarship that is not an accurate reflection of Buddhist history. The issue when comparing Buddhism with other religions like Hinduism is not based upon what can be gleaned from parsing scriptures. it boils down to what can be achieved on the cushion: meditation.. But the texts are the products of meditation, and, of course, there is not a singular “meditation” that is the same for all schools of meditation, about which the Buddha was quite clear. Whilst I respect that this forum is not for a discussion of comparative religion, Unity in Diversity is the issue, and this goes way beyond scriptural parsing and logic. You have to transcend death to see it, and at least I have done that. Goodness, but that also could be, BG, that you had a nice samadhi experience upon which you have layered your beliefs. The Buddha pointed that that is a real problem. At this point, based upon 40+ years of practice and experience, having worked with Tibetan, Zen, and Theravadin teachers, having done a number of 3 month vipassana retreats, numerous shorter ones, been a monk in Thailand, lived in a Zendo for three years, I’ll go with what the texts say.[/QUOTE] Dr Rewata Dhamma: I once wrote that my Buddhist teacher is an Arahant. You asked me how I know, since it wolud take one to know one. Dr Rewata Dhamma was one of those who helped in the Sixth Buddhist Council, and one needed to be an Arahant to attend. This is how I know. "After studying the Theravada Buddhism in various scholars eminent monks, he passed the examination of more higher studies book at the age of 23 years and was bestowed with the prestigious title of Sasanadhaja-siripavara dhammacariya in 1953. The following year he was one of those who helped in the Sixth General Council of the Sangha (the famous Chattha Sangayana) in Yangon in order to establish the canonical scriptures." http://translate.google.co.uk/translate … D%26sa%3DG But, he had a BA in Mahayana Buddhism, and an MA in Sanskrit and Indian Philosophy and a Doctorate from the Benares Hindu University. He was appointed to Teach All Schools of Buddhism in the West by the 16th Gyalwa Karmapa of the Kagyupta School of Tibetan Buddhism. He also taught Vajrayana Buddhism. He was also a gaurdian of the relics of the Buddha that used to belong to the Burmese Royal family. they are now housed in the Dhammatalaka Peace Pagoda that he built in Birmingham England. He also laid the foundations for the Establishment of the first Buddhist University in Britain, which has now been built in his name and offers Post-Graduate Degree Courses in Thervada Buddhism. My current Theravadin Buddhist Teacher is a qualified Abhidhamma Teacher. Nice Samadhi Experience: There is nothing that you can say, or quote that will changet this experience. For myself, it was a direct Exoperience of God. If you want to call it Samadhi, go right ahead. The twelfth Kheting tai situpa described it to me as a direct experience of reality, and selected me for kalachakra Initaion on the strength of it. Prior to becoming a Buddhist, without any teacher, I carried out the Bhakti Yoga of the Hare krishnas and acheived God consciousnees in a matter of weeks. In 1995, they gave me the name Bhakta Glenn. Prior to these experiences, I had no religious training or background whatsoever. |
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| 5 years ago :: Sep 18, 2008 - 3:09PM #53 | |
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As for Dr Rewata Dhamma, that is all very nice, but it dopes not change the fact that the quote you attribute to him reflects an out of date, inaccurate, Western scholarship.
This sentence alone
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| 5 years ago :: Sep 18, 2008 - 6:45PM #54 | |
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As for Dr Rewata Dhamma, that is all very nice, but it does not change the fact that the quote you attribute to him reflects an out of date and inaccurate Western scholarship.
This sentence alone
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| 5 years ago :: Nov 14, 2008 - 11:13AM #55 | |
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[QUOTE=brburl;769896]As for Dr Rewata Dhamma, that is all very nice, but it does not change the fact that the quote you attribute to him reflects an out of date and inaccurate Western scholarship.
Comparitive Religion: It is quite sad that you seem to mistake pre-Buddhist thought with Comparitive Religion. Since 1990, I have met and meditated with several Enightemed Buddhist Masters. My own Teacher is both an Arahant and an accomplished Abhidhamma Scholar, and a qualified Teacher of the Entire Theravada. Not one of these has ever said to me that the discussion of the Creator God constitutes comparitive religion. Indeed, it was my own Enlightened Teacher that taught me that the Buddhist Description of the Creator God is both relative to Buddhism and that it is unsatisfatcory as a definiton of God outside the confines of the BuddhaDhamma. She also taught me that each and everone of the 84,000 discrete Paths to Nibbana represents a unique stratagem for overcoming the obstacles the realisation of Nibbana, with each unique stratagem being applicable to only one mental paradigm. For this reason, she also told me that it is a mistake to assume that the Buddha actually taught anything about God. Subjective Experience within Buddhism. There is no-one, not even the Buddha, that can claim to have a totally objective view of the nature of reality. It is ineffable, which means that there are no words or language to describe it. Thus, the notion of Objective Debate about the Dhamma is a mental fiction. The entire word of the Buddha gives only a Relative Perspective of the Nature of Reality. He could only describe it in negative terms: no-craving. To this end, terms like Hinayana and Mahayana ought be seen for what they really are: relative names for relative things, which are of themselves, empty of any significance. Thus, to become angry at the thought of someone using any such term is a sure sign that they have not entered into any of the Four Supramundane Paths. In Meditation, one cultivates silence for the very reason that the discursive mind is unfocused. On a Buddhist retreat, noise is considered to be a thorn to concentration. Ultimate reality, which is taught in the Theravada is approached in total silence. Gods within Theravada BUddhism It is a mistake to assume that the Theravada was only taught to human beings. The Gods interrogated the Buddha about his Dhamma Teaching on a far bigger scale. But, the major difference in perspective between Buddhism and Brahmanism is that the Buddha analysed everying into discrete categories, even reality. Brahmanism teaches that there is only One Reality, which is God. Even Buddhist Nibbana is one reality and is non-different than God. Thus the Gods that received the Dhamma from the Buddha are non-different to the One God of Brahmanism. For this reason, in Hinduism (Brahmanism), the Buddha is considered to have been an avatar of God. Whilst I respect thast this forum is for discussing a Buddhist view of the Creator God, does it not seem a little subjective and self-defeating to only allow the Buddhist view. |
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| 5 years ago :: Nov 16, 2008 - 3:51AM #56 | |
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BG: Comparitive Religion:
It is quite sad that you seem to mistake pre-Buddhist thought with Comparitive Religion. Since 1990, I have met and meditated with several Enightemed Buddhist Masters. My own Teacher is both an Arahant and an accomplished Abhidhamma Scholar, and a qualified Teacher of the Entire Theravada. Your teacher claims he is an arahant? But even if he were, it does not change the fact that your signature blurb that you quote from him is historically inaccurate, arahant or not. BG: Not one of these has ever said to me that the discussion of the Creator God constitutes comparitive religion. Indeed, it was my own Enlightened Teacher that taught me that the Buddhist Description of the Creator God is both relative to Buddhism and that it is unsatisfatcory as a definiton of God outside the confines of the BuddhaDhamma. If I am going to appeal to an awakened teacher, I’d opt for the Buddha, who rather pointedly rejects the idea of a creator god as having any real significance, and the Buddha’s description is a far more inclusive than your teacher’s uninformed claim. BG: She also taught me that each and everone of the 84,000 discrete Paths to Nibbana represents a unique stratagem for overcoming the obstacles the realisation of Nibbana, with each unique stratagem being applicable to only one mental paradigm. For this reason, she also told me that it is a mistake to assume that the Buddha actually taught anything about God. A statement which shows a considerable lack of understanding of what the Buddha taught, and in saying that I could easily appeal to the awakened teachers with whom I have studied, but I won't do that. BG: Subjective Experience within Buddhism. There is no-one, not even the Buddha, that can claim to have a totally objective view of the nature of reality. That is not what the Buddha has said about himself. BG: It is ineffable, which means that there are no words or language to describe it. And that is not what the Buddha said about reality. BG: Thus, the notion of Objective Debate about the Dhamma is a mental fiction. The entire word of the Buddha gives only a Relative Perspective of the Nature of Reality. He could only describe it in negative terms: no-craving. Which goes to show what you don’t know. He had a great more than “no-craving” to say about reality. BG: To this end, terms like Hinayana and Mahayana ought be seen for what they really are: relative names for relative things, which are of themselves, empty of any significance. Thus, to become angry at the thought of someone using any such term is a sure sign that they have not entered into any of the Four Supramundane Paths. One wonders why such an ugly word as hinayana was coined. As Mahayanist Zen teacher Robert Aitken, Roshi so nicely states in his TAKING THE PATH OF ZEN: "These invidious terms [mahayana and hinayana] were invented by Mahayana people, who illustrate thereby the meanness of bragging about your own generosity." BG: In Meditation, one cultivates silence for the very reason that the discursive mind is unfocused. On a Buddhist retreat, noise is considered to be a thorn to concentration. Ultimate reality, which is taught in the Theravada is approached in total silence. “Ultimate reality” is in the rise and fall of just six things: the seen, the heard, smelled, the tasted, the cognized, and the touched. Total silence is not a necessity; paying attention is. BG: Gods within Theravada BUddhism It is a mistake to assume that the Theravada was only taught to human beings. The Gods interrogated the Buddha about his Dhamma Teaching on a far bigger scale. Let us not forget that the “Gods” are karma bound beings with life spans, subject to rebirth just like you and me and anyone else that is not awake. BG: But, the major difference in perspective between Buddhism and Brahmanism is that the Buddha analysed everying into discrete categories, even reality. Brahmanism is grounded in an ontology of being and non-being, something that the Buddha, in the very fundamental aspect of his Teaching, clearly rejects. BG: Brahmanism teaches that there is only One Reality, which is God. Even Buddhist Nibbana is one reality and is non-different than God. Nibbana, by the Buddha’s very definition, has no reality outside of the individual who is awake. Let me further add from Klaus Klostermaier's A SURVEY OF HINDUISM, pgs: 137-8, 149-50.
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| 5 years ago :: Nov 16, 2008 - 4:16AM #57 | |
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The Buddha did not Teach debating skills and he did not teach Logic.
The Buddha taught Dhamma and Abhidhamma. The Buddha taugh devtees how to master the senses, which is Mind and Body. In Samatha meditation there is only one subject of analysis and that is the Four Elements. Book learning is actually eschewed in real meditation practice. On a Buddhist retreat, one is not allowed to read books and study. One observes the Noble Silence. If one studies advanced scriptures before he has reached those advanced levels in meditation, he only creates very severe hindrances which become extremely difficult to overcome. To master the senses one does not require a towering intellect, nor is it necessary to become a man of letters. The best attribute is sharp faculties, which ought not be confused with intelligence. During the time of the Buddha, it occasioned that several Brahmin priests entered the Sangha. Because of their advanced spiritual training, they did not have to go through all of the preliminary practices of the novices. Hinayana in Vajrayana Buddhism The Hinayana in Vajrayana Buddhism is the name of the first stage of Training. it is associated with Personal Enlightenment. Vajrayana Buddhism is concerned with Universal Enlightenment of All Beings. the Bodhisattva takes o vow to postpone the realisation of Nirvana until all beings have been liberated. The literal meaning of Hinayana is 'small vehicle' In my previous life, I was a master of 64 Hindu Tantras. to take birth into this life, I renounced all of that knowledge to take a birth in a working class family and to live a life according to that culture. I became self-enlightened on february 6th 1988. it took me half an hour to traverse The four Stages of Enlightenment, without any prior training in the Dharma. In May 1991, I was accepted as a Theravada student. In August 1991, I was initiated into the Kalachakra Tantra. there are 11 initiations. 7 are lower initiations and four are higher initiations. In respect of my previous life, I do not have to go through the 7 lower initiations. I have only to go through the 4 Higher Initiations in the Stage of Generation. Successful practice of the Kalachakra Tantra will purify 14 generations of my family from the past and it will purify 14 generations of my family into the future. On the day of my self-enlightenment, I took 15 people with me. Not one of them had ever heard of Buddhism and not one of them practises Buddhism but, without doubt, they are the Buddhadharma and protected by it, beyond Mara and unwholesome rebirth. In Theravada Buddhism, from the Standpoint of Ultimate Reality, there is no buddha, no dhamma and no sangha, and certainly no brahnanism (Hinduism). It is at this level of understanding that there neither is an atman nor there is not an atman. It is at this level of understanding that there is no creator god. There is another goal in Theravada Buddhism than Ultimate Enlightenment, and that is the Realisation of The Universal Monarch, and that is my path. It is taught both within the Theravada and the Kalachakra. |
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| 5 years ago :: Nov 16, 2008 - 4:37AM #58 | |
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BG: The Buddha did not Teach debating skills and he did not teach Logic.
But the Buddha was quite concerned that his teachings be carefully preserved and correctly understood, and in his teaching he used good logic, and fine debating skills. BG: In Samatha meditation there is only one subject of analysis and that is the Four Elements. Not really. BG: Book learning is actually eschewed in real meditation practice. On a Buddhist retreat, one is not allowed to read books and study. One observes the Noble Silence. Sure, and hopefully one will have teachers who have done both the book learning and the practice. BG: The Hinayana in Vajrayana Buddhism is the name of the first stage of Training. And “hinayana” in that context has not a thing to do with the Theravada. BG: In May 1991, I was accepted as a Theravada student. Okay. I was a monk in Thailand in the mid 70’s BG: In August 1991, I was initiated into the Kalachakra Tantra. Me too, by the Dalai Lama in the mid 80’s. BG: Successful practice of the Kalachakra Tantra will purify 14 generations of my family from the past and it will purify 14 generations of my family into the future. On the day of my self-enlightenment, I took 15 people with me. Not one of them had ever heard of Buddhism and not one of them practises Buddhism but, without doubt, they are the Buddhadharma and protected by it, beyond Mara and unwholesome rebirth. Goodness, but what does that have to do with the subject at hand? BG: In Theravada Buddhism, from the Standpoint of Ultimate Reality, there is no buddha, no dhamma and no sangha, and certainly no brahnanism (Hinduism). It is at this level of understanding that there neither is an atman nor there is not an atman. It is at this level of understanding that there is no creator god. But don’t forget that “Ultimate Reality” has no reality outside of the one awakened. BG: There is another goal in Theravada Buddhism than Ultimate Enlightenment, and that is the Realisation of The Universal Monarch, and that is my path. It is taught both within the Theravada and the Kalachakra. Good luck with that, but it seems that such a claim really should be kept private. And for all of that, your signature blurb is still wrong. |
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| 5 years ago :: Nov 17, 2008 - 4:35AM #59 | |
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[QUOTE=brburl;899043]BG: The Buddha did not Teach debating skills and he did not teach Logic.
But the Buddha was quite concerned that his teachings be carefully preserved and correctly understood, and in his teaching he used good logic, and fine debating skills. BG: In Samatha meditation there is only one subject of analysis and that is the Four Elements. Not really. BG: Book learning is actually eschewed in real meditation practice. On a Buddhist retreat, one is not allowed to read books and study. One observes the Noble Silence. Sure, and hopefully one will have teachers who have done both the book learning and the practice. BG: The Hinayana in Vajrayana Buddhism is the name of the first stage of Training. And “hinayana” in that context has not a thing to do with the Theravada. BG: In May 1991, I was accepted as a Theravada student. Okay. I was a monk in Thailand in the mid 70’s BG: In August 1991, I was initiated into the Kalachakra Tantra. Me too, by the Dalai Lama in the mid 80’s. BG: Successful practice of the Kalachakra Tantra will purify 14 generations of my family from the past and it will purify 14 generations of my family into the future. On the day of my self-enlightenment, I took 15 people with me. Not one of them had ever heard of Buddhism and not one of them practises Buddhism but, without doubt, they are the Buddhadharma and protected by it, beyond Mara and unwholesome rebirth. Goodness, but what does that have to do with the subject at hand? BG: In Theravada Buddhism, from the Standpoint of Ultimate Reality, there is no buddha, no dhamma and no sangha, and certainly no brahnanism (Hinduism). It is at this level of understanding that there neither is an atman nor there is not an atman. It is at this level of understanding that there is no creator god. But don’t forget that “Ultimate Reality” has no reality outside of the one awakened. BG: There is another goal in Theravada Buddhism than Ultimate Enlightenment, and that is the Realisation of The Universal Monarch, and that is my path. It is taught both within the Theravada and the Kalachakra. Good luck with that, but it seems that such a claim really should be kept private. And for all of that, your signature blurb is still wrong.[/QUOTE] BG: In Samatha meditation there is only one subject of analysis and that is the Four Elements. Not really. Yes, really. Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma General Editor Bhikkhu Bodhi President of the Buddhist Publication Society Introduction and Explanatory Guide Venerable Bikkhu Bodhi and Dr U Rewata Dhamma Abhidhamma Specialist. Compendium of Meditation Subjects Basic Categories (6) One analysis The Forty Meditation Subjects (11) One Analysis The one analysis is the analysis of the Four Elements BG: In Theravada Buddhism, from the Standpoint of Ultimate Reality, there is no buddha, no dhamma and no sangha, and certainly no brahnanism (Hinduism). It is at this level of understanding that there neither is an atman nor there is not an atman. It is at this level of understanding that there is no creator god. But don’t forget that “Ultimate Reality” has no reality outside of the one awakened. Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma The Fourfold Ultimate Reality Accordingly, the things contained in the Abhidhamma are said to be fourfold from the standpoint of ultimate reality: consciousness, mental factors, matter and Nibbana. According to the explanatory guide, there are two kinds of realities being addressed in the Abhidhamma: conventional realities and ultimate realities. Conventional realities are said to be the referents of ordinary conceptual thought and conventional modes of expression. Thus, if one reads from the Suttas: Pathama-samvasa Sutta Discourse on living together as husband and wife. The Buddha teaches about the four ways that a man and woman can live together as husband and wife quote "The couple having morality equally, practise the Dhamma in this world and rejoice in the deva world enjoying the pleasures of the senses." Ultimate realities said to be things which exist by reason of their own intrinsic nature. They are said to be the dhammas, the final irreducible components of existence. As such, the dhammas admit of no further reduction, but are themselves the final terms of analysis. The One Awakened is dependent upon the Five Khandhas. Whilst he has become an Arahant, he has not fully realised Nibbana. He has realised kilesa-parinibbana, The Full Extinction of Defilements. He will not realise Khandha-parinibbana until he dies. Khandha-parinibbana is the Full Extinction of the Groups of Existence. When Khandha-parinibbana is realised, there is no 'one awakened'. BG: There is another goal in Theravada Buddhism than Ultimate Enlightenment, and that is the Realisation of The Universal Monarch, and that is my path. It is taught both within the Theravada and the Kalachakra. Good luck with that, but it seems that such a claim really should be kept private. Cakkavatti Sutta A Cakkavatti is a Universal Monarch. According to Thanissaro Bhikkhu, this sutta consists of a discourse teaching the means of skilful action. Thanissaro Bhikkhu points out that the sutta refers back to an historical time when people acted skilfully and lived for an incredibly long period of time: 80,000 years. Whilst the sutta itself shows the fall of man after an heir to the Cakkavatti performs a derelicion of duty by failing to take up the Buddhist practice for obtaining the Seven Treasures of a Universal Monarch. Quite apart from being kept private, the exoteric teachings of Gotama Buddha are there for anyone to take up and practice, within the context of the Theravada. Professor U Ko Lay has produced a Commentary on the Salient points of the Cakkavatti Sutta. U Ko Lay writes that human society is founded upon morality, sila, that the material progress of the world and spiritual growth are both dependent upon a strong moral base. My concern is not with the Ultimate prize of Nibbana/Nirvana. I consider them useless attainments if the world around is falling apart. In India, the Buddha created the Householders Institution before he preached the First Sermon and ordained the Five Ascetics. From Day One of the Dhamma, when the Buddha first turned The Wheel of the Dhamma, the Bhikhus were supported by the Householders. From the standpoint of Theravada Buddhism, the noble duties of a Universal Monarch are to make the Dhamma one's firm support. There is nothing private about this teaching. It is for everyone. For the Householder, he merely has to take refuge in the Triple Gem and take the Five Precepts of the Householder every day. The Bhikkhus have a more elevated and advanced set of moral duties to perform. And for all of that, your signature blurb is still wrong. According to Bhikkhu Bodhidhamma, The Buddha taught his disciples not to get caught up in debates because of the fetter of conceit that is generated. The blurb, as you refer to it, is an actual quote from a memeber of the theravada Arya Sangha and a former Vice president of the World Buddhist Sangha: |
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| 5 years ago :: Nov 17, 2008 - 10:24AM #60 | |
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BG: In Samatha meditation there is only one subject of analysis and that is the Four Elements.
Me: “Not really.”. BG: Yes, really. Samatha is a synonym for jhana. See Ven Nanamoli’s translation of the Visuddhimagga, page 88 and page 297 (VIII179) and page 679 (XVIII 3).. There is no single subject for the development of samatha/jhana. Use of the “four elements” is one way of practice, but not the sole way. See the Satipatthana Sutta. And in the Visuddhimagga Buddhaghosa outlines using the four element as one way of doing it, or one could use the 18 elements, or one could use the 12 bases, or the 5 aggregates and so on. Page 56 of the Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma makes it clear the samatha is the practice of jhana. On page 329, it states: Technically, samatha is defined as the one-pointed of mind in the eight meditative attainment [jhana]…. Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma General Editor Bhikkhu Bodhi President of the Buddhist Publication Society Introduction and Explanatory Guide Venerable Bikkhu Bodhi and Dr U Rewata Dhamma Abhidhamma Specialist. Compendium of Meditation Subjects Basic Categories (6) One analysis The Forty Meditation Subjects (11) One Analysis The one analysis is the analysis of the Four Elements Your highly selective quotation of this is extremely problematic. The text on page 330 clearly list seven different categories for developing samatha. You are kind of coming across here as not knowing quite what it is that you are talking about. BG: In Theravada Buddhism, from the Standpoint of Ultimate Reality, there is no buddha, no dhamma and no sangha, and certainly no brahnanism (Hinduism). It is at this level of understanding that there neither is an atman nor there is not an atman. It is at this level of understanding that there is no creator god. Me: “But don’t forget that “Ultimate Reality” has no reality outside of the one awakened.” BG gives a rather confused response. Very simply the Buddha defined nibbana this way: That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is nibbana. -- S.N. IV 251 and IV 321. It refers quite clearly to the individual transformed. There is no nibbana out there somewhere. It is the characteristic of the individual who become nibbana-ized, transformed by the insight into impermanence, suffering, and the emptiness of self, the interdependent rise and fall of what it is that make us up. All this is very clearly spelled out in the suttas. Also, see: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth … averb.html As for the Universal Monarch thing, good luck with that. The blurb, as you refer to it, is an actual quote from a memeber of the theravada Arya Sangha and a former Vice president of the World Buddhist Sangha: And your signature blurb is still historically inaccurate, reflecting old, out of date Western scholarship, doing no justice to any of the traditions mentioned. |
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