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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2007 - 8:47AM #1
blucat
Posts: 143
An intricate mathematical code, far beyond the ability of human intelligence, has been discovered imbedded in the fabric of the scripture. Like an ancient time capsule, it remained hidden until our knowledge grew sophisticated enough to decode its intricacies. This code was deciphered by computers.




An extract concerning Rabbi Judah the Pious of the 11th century.

The first indication of this mathematical composition was in the 11th century by Rabbi Judah the Pious. In a book entitled STUDIES IN JEWISH MYSTICISM (Association for Jewish Studies, 1982, p. 91), Joseph Dan writes that Rabbi Judah and his disciples developed a theory that:
...the words and letters of the various prayers are not accidental, nor are they only vehicles for their literal meaning. Their order, especially their numbers, reflect a mystical harmony, a sacred divine rhythm. This mystical harmony can be discovered in historical events, directed by God; in nature, especially in the miraculous occurrences directly influenced by divine powers; and first and foremost, in the Bible. According to Rabbi Judah and the Ashkenazi Hasidic school in general, there can be nothing accidental in the Bible, not even the forms of letters, the punctuation, the vocalization, and especially-in the numerical structures-the number of certain letters, consonants or vowels in a certain verse; the number of words from the same root; the number and variety of divine names in a certain pericope, the absence of one or more letters from a chapter, and many other elements of the Scriptures besides their content.
Nine centuries after Rabbi Judah stated these elements of the code, the computer has demonstrated each of them…

Joseph Dan writes that Rabbi Judah was critical of the French and British Jews when they altered the morning prayer by adding a few words (Ibid., p. 88). Rabbi Judah pointed out that such an addition destroys the numerical structure of the prayer and renders it utterly nullified. He maintained that it is the "numerical combination," rather than the "meanings" of the words that effects the needed contact between the worshiper and God. Even the specific, nineteen-based, numerical system of the scripture was reported by Rabbi Judah:
The people [Jews] in France made it a custom to add [in the morning prayer] the words: " 'Ashrei temimei derekh [blessed are those who walk the righteous way]," and our Rabbi, the Pious, of blessed memory, wrote that they were completely and utterly wrong. It is all gross falsehood, because there are only nineteen times that the Holy Name is mentioned [in that portion of the morning prayer] ...and similarly you find the word 'Elohim nineteen times in the pericope of Ve-'elleh shemot.... Similarly, you find that Israel is called "sons" nineteen times, and there are many other examples. All these sets of nineteen are intricately intertwined, and they contain many secrets and esoteric meanings, which are contained in more than eight large volumes. Therefore, anyone who has the fear of God in him will not listen to the words of the Frenchmen who add the verse "'Ashrei temimei derekh," and blessed are the righteous who walk in the paths of God's Torah, for according to their additions the Holy Name is mentioned twenty times...and this is a great mistake.




My question is that the Jews know of the mathematical code that is apparent in the word of God, then what is it that makes them deny or reject the Holy Quran. Yes I agree, the unveiling of the mathematical miracle of the Quran 1400 years after the Prophet Muhammad had died didn’t make a believer out of the world or was headline news, people were more interested in rock n roll and idolisation of sick, uneducated people who played instruments, though however much if not all, is rubbish and makes no sense at all and is full of crap in the name of art, a madman‘s vocation is in art. And surely if it was known during his (Muhammad’s) time, people would have revered him as a demigod, which in certain circles they do however.  You may think as soon as I mention the word Jew, that I am some sort of anti-Semitic, which has been prevalent in Christianity in their literature that it was the Jews fault of killing Jesus, my question is why? you cannot accept  that the Quran is the word of God if it is apparent in certain extracts that the number 19 is significant to show that it is the word of God.   I’m not being bias or find myself aligning to Muhammadan schools, personally it has re-affirmed and convince me that the Quran is the word of God, because of the mathematical code and miracle found in it.





O ?Children of Israel, remember my favour, which I bestowed upon you, and fulfill your part of the covenant, that I fulfil My part of the covenant, and reverence Me.
You shall believe in what I have revealed herein, confirming what you have; do not be the first to reject it.  Do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price, and observe Me.
Do not confound the truth with falsehood, nor shall you  conceal the truth, knowingly. 


(2:40-42 trans. R.Khalifa)
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2007 - 9:11AM #2
gavrie
Posts: 807
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2007 - 9:12AM #3
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617
First, the notion of "Bible Codes" is absolute garbage and has been completely debunked, annihilated even. See HERE

Second, we do not accept the Qur'an because:

1.) The Torah is the complete revelation of God to the Jewish people to which nothing can be added and from which nothing can be taken away.

2.) Muhammad was Jewish, therefore he was not a prophet for us to follow. Prophets are apportioned out to each nation: each nation has its own prophets. Jewish prophets will be Jewish, Arab prophets will be Arab, etc.

The Qur'an contradicts a substantial part of the Torah. No legitimate Jewish prophet would be able to contradict the Torah and it is by the Torah that we judge the authenticity of a prophet. This is why we do not accept Jesus: even though he was a Jew, which makes him a much better candidate for a legitimate prophet than Muhammad, Jesus' teachings contradict the Torah and thus we reject him. If we reject Jesus then kal vachomer we reject Muhammad.

3.) We do not rely on miracles to show us what to do our how to believe. We rely only on the Torah. Even if the "Bible Codes" and -- now -- the "Qur'an codes" were not worthless trash of ideas, they would still not have any bearing on our belief and practice. The Torah is our guide and constitution. The Torah is not in heaven nor across  the sea but here in our hands and in our mouths. We follow it and thereby follow the will of God.

Another thought:

Islamic ideology is based on the ridiculous claim that the Jewish and Christian scriptures are "corrupted" -- either deliberately or accidentally -- and that the Qur'an is the correct "restoration" of the true word of God.

If there really were miraculous mathematical codes hidden in the Hebrew Bible, then that would mean that the text as we have it today is not corrupt and therefore exactly in the condition that God intended it to be.

Indeed, certainly an omnipotent Being has the power to prevent His word from becoming "corrupted?

Therefore, if the Hebrew Bible is not corrupt and if the Hebrew Bible, particularly the Torah, requires us to reject Muhammad and his Qur'an, then your argument is self-defeating.

Thanks for playing. Better luck next time.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2007 - 9:13AM #4
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617
Hee! Gavie linked to the same site I did! :)

Great minds, eh? :)
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2007 - 9:20AM #5
gavrie
Posts: 807
LOL - it seems we're having an epidemic of believers in bible codes and intelligent design both around here lately. That one of them is a Jew pains me somewhat, since it is indeed a beginning to proving my hypothesis that the frum indeed have declared scientific research into evolution and abiogenesis assur.

My next link will be to TalkOrigins. If I even go back to that thread.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2007 - 11:00AM #6
blucat
Posts: 143
I haven't had time to read the various responses and i shall have a look at that link too, inshallah) after i apologise for titling this thread by saying (, 'wherever you look, is the face of Allah', it should have been or could have been, 'wherever you look, is the face of GOD.'  It is a Quranic verse, which has confused and interested many, however how would one interpret such a verse is really a challenge.  For me, it means God is everywhere and yet nowhere,  by everywhere I mean he is Omnipresent, and by nowhere I mean he is not tangible but is still a conscious being.  Also what we percieve when we look, throught the faculties of our eyes, the splendour or mere perception, that is infinitely greater than our understanding of it.   I think my ignorant past, where i used to be confused as to what is my God, Allah, or GOD, is hard still for me to differentiate to be reasonable in understanding.  God in its essence means the one you turn to when all else fails, Allah is an Arabic name for GOD.   There are people who say there is no god besides Allah, or that there is no god besides GOD,  I'm not 100% confortable with either,  illaha or Allah, derive from the same root word, meaning god or GOD.  When you use the term Allah, it creates fear and humility in a person, when you translate it to mean, GOD, then it makes a difference by removing the fear of the unknown.  God is good, but by calling him Allah, brings fear of the unknown into it.  for example, if we were to put both alternatives side by side, you may see the difference of what is meant by them, and how one would react to them.

Wherever you look,is the face of Allah
Wherever you look is the face of GOD

I think there to be a difference in what we percieve when you read those words and replace Allah for GOD,or vis versa.

Now I'll have a look at that link, forwarded by two people, erm i have read the responses, and find some things i can say as a result of those responses, but first i will have a look at the link, inshallah.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2007 - 11:16AM #7
blucat
Posts: 143
as a response to the link, have a look at the following link, please,

http://submission.org/quran/biblecode.html

I think it suffices me to add anything, we are mistaken you seem to be referring to some other phenomena when you refer to the Bible Code which is different than to what i was referring to in the signature of GOD based upon the number 19, which points to the text being the word of GOD,  Why would GOD chose the number 19, as his signature, also has an interesting story to tell, 1 is the first, and 9 is the last,  the alpha and omega,  the First and the Last, which is GOD.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2007 - 11:19AM #8
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617
I really should proofread better

in #3, point 2.) should, of course, read: "Muhammad was NOT Jewish..."
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2007 - 11:33AM #9
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617
That website is certainly very interesting. If I knew or cared more about the Qur'an I might consider investigating it. But, I have a life.

Now, the Qur'an could be the most amazing text in the history of the world. It could a have coded within it the cure for cancer and the blueprints for a cheap and reneweable environmentally friendly energy source.

However, that would not change the fact that our sacred text is the Torah and that the Torah we have today is the same as that given to Moses at Sinai and that Muhammad was not a legitimate Jewish prophet for us to listen to.

So, I'm glad the Qur'an is meaningful to you. Much good may it do you. But it's not our book.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2007 - 11:38AM #10
gavrie
Posts: 807
http://www.nmsr.org/code19.htm

The Qu'ran code suffers from the same lexical problems as the bible code, the War and Peace code, the Moby Dick code, the Terry Pratchett novel code, and the codes of any other book you can name.
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