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Switch to Forum Live View Another sad day for the Lutheran Church
2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2015 - 3:14AM #1
allan444
Posts: 472


 


“Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things”
(1 Corinthians 13:7).


Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

Grace and peace to you in the name of the crucified and risen Christ.

Last week the U.S. Supreme Court rendered its decision announcing the right of same-gender couples to have equal access to marriage. For many members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, this decision is a welcome sign of hope and a time for celebration. Other members of this church do not agree with the court’s decision and remain deeply concerned because of their understanding of Scripture.

This decision affects each of us, some profoundly, and we are not of one mind. Let us continue to accompany one another with prayer, love and mutual respect as we reflect on this new reality and remember Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians about the enduring power of God’s love. The ELCA social statement “Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust” (2009) neither endorses nor forbids same-gender marriages and recognizes that we have differing understandings and convictions on this matter. In its decision, the court stated that “the First Amendment ensures that religious organizations and persons are given proper protection as they seek to teach the principles that are so fulfilling and so central to their lives and faiths.”

According to this church’s social statement on human sexuality, all decisions about recognizing, supporting and holding publicly accountable same-gender relationships are entrusted to congregations. Recognizing that the church is not of one mind on this subject, our 2009 actions provide that congregations and clergy should discern together whether to recognize such relationships and to what degree.

Pastors are to engage in conversation, discernment and partnership with the congregations who have called them prior to solemnizing or presiding over a same-gender marriage. On the other hand, no pastor is obligated to solemnize the marriage of any couple, same-gender or different-gender, whom the pastor cannot in good conscience marry.

As Lutheran Christians, we continue to be a church that engages in conversation and discernment in all aspects of our faith and life. Creating space for respectful conversation and dialogue continues to be an important part of our life together. A helpful resource for engaging in difficult conversations is “Talking Together as Christians about Tough Social Issues.” In addition, the ELCA Ministry to and with Same-Gender Couples and their Families Working Group remains in the process of completing its work. A report of the group’s findings and possible recommendations will be presented to the ELCA Church Council at its November meeting.

We seek to see our differences as a gift to be celebrated as we live out that which unites us: the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ who leads us into mission and ministry in the world. In the midst of this change, we are first and foremost church – a church that proclaims the good news of Jesus Christ. May God bless, guide and strengthen you each day as you go in peace and serve the Lord.

Your Sister in Christ,

The Rev. Elizabeth A. Eaton
Presiding Bishop
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2015 - 3:18AM #2
allan444
Posts: 472

Without vote, without discussion, without consensus


The Lutheran Church (ELCA) now endorses/allows “in the church” a marriage between a couple other than one man and one women


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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2015 - 12:56PM #3
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,483

Thanks be to God! It was a great week.

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2015 - 3:23PM #4
WannabeTheo
Posts: 401

Jul 1, 2015 -- 3:18AM, allan444 wrote:


Without vote, without discussion, without consensus


The Lutheran Church (ELCA) now endorses/allows “in the church” a marriage between a couple other than one man and one women





This has been discussed for many years. It was voted on at the 2009 Churchwide Assembly.


Resolution 1: Adopted by a vote of 619-402: “Resolved, that the ELCA commit itself to finding ways to allow congregations that choose to do so to recognize, support and hold publicly accountable lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships.”

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2015 - 8:22AM #5
allan444
Posts: 472


Jul 1, 2015 -- 3:23PM, WannabeTheo wrote:


Jul 1, 2015 -- 3:18AM, allan444 wrote:


Without vote, without discussion, without consensus


The Lutheran Church (ELCA) now endorses/allows “in the church” a marriage between a couple other than one man and one women





This has been discussed for many years. It was voted on at the 2009 Churchwide Assembly.


Resolution 1: Adopted by a vote of 619-402: “Resolved, that the ELCA commit itself to finding ways to allow congregations that choose to do so to recognize, support and hold publicly accountable lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships.”




Let the truth be told the 2009  vote was not whether the Lutheran Church should marry gays, in fact if the voting in 2009 was whether gays  should be given  the right to marry in the Lutheran Church  it would clearly not have  gained the two thirds majority and would not have passed


On Wednesday, August 19, 2009 the churches national assembly adopted the Social Statement as amended by a vote of 676-338: precisely the two-thirds majority needed for passage.  On Thursday, August 20, the assembly also adopted 15 implementing resolutions by a vote of 695-285.   The Recommendations proposed the development of a process in which congregations, synods, and churchwide units that chose to do so could call pastors and other officially recognized church leaders who were in publicly accountable same-gender lifelong monogamous relationships and yes as noted above  with Resolution 1 “Resolved, that the ELCA commit itself to finding ways to allow congregations that choose to do so to recognize, support and hold publicly accountable lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships.”( see the full report with the link below).


The kicker is that some voted for this but did not want to label that relationship as a marriage.  The report itself states that the church lacks consensus on this matter.    The passages below from the report  describes  the diverse opinions and is an indication that some  voted for passage and approval of the 2009 resolution despite believing that the gay relationship should not be called a marriage. 


                                                        _____________________ 



This church recognizes that, with conviction and integrity:


On the basis of conscious-bound  belief , some are convinced that homosexuality and even lifelong monogamous homosexual relationships reflect a broken world in which some relationships do not pattern themselves after creation God intended .While they knowledge that such relationships may be lived out with mutuality and care, they do not believe that the neighbor or community are best served by publicly recognizing such relationships as traditional marriage. 


On the basis of conscious-bound  belief, some are convinced that Scripture witness does not address the context of sexual orientation and lifelong loving and committed relationships that we experienced today they believe that neighbor and community are  best served when same-gender relationships are honored and held  to high standards in public accountability, but they do not equate these relationships with marriage.  They do however affirmed the need for community support in the role of pastoral care and they wish to surround lifelong, monogamous relationships or covenant  unions with prayer. 


On the basis of conscious-bound  belief, some are  convinced that Scripture witness does not address the context of sexual orientation and committed relationships that we experience today.  They believe that neighbor and  community are best served when same gender  relationships are lived out with lifelong monogamous commitments that are held to  the same rigorous standards, social activities, and status as heterosexual marriage.  They surround such couples and their lifelong commitments with prayer to living ways to glorify god, find strength for  the challenges that we will be faced, and serve others.  They believe same gender couple should avail themselves of social and legal support for themselves, their children, and other dependents and seek the highest legal accountability available for the relationships.


On the basis of conscious-bound  belief, some are convinced that same gender sexual behaviors sinful, contrary to biblical teaching and understanding of natural law.  They believe same gender sexual behavior carries a grave danger unrepentant sin.  They therefore conclude that the neighbor in the community at best served by calling people in same gender sexual relationships to repentance for that behavior and to celibate lifestyle.  Such decisions are intended to accompanied by pastoral response and community support 


_________________________________________________________________


1You can read the full social statement on “Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust”  l. The statement was adopted in 2009 by the ELCA Churchwide Assembly. –


 


download.elca.org/ELCA%20Resource%20Repo...


 


download.elca.org/ELCA%20Resource%20Repo...


 




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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2015 - 11:20PM #6
allan444
Posts: 472

Jul 1, 2015 -- 3:23PM, WannabeTheo wrote:


Jul 1, 2015 -- 3:18AM, allan444 wrote:


Without vote, without discussion, without consensus


The Lutheran Church (ELCA) now endorses/allows “in the church” a marriage between a couple other than one man and one women





This has been discussed for many years. It was voted on at the 2009 Churchwide Assembly.


Resolution 1: Adopted by a vote of 619-402: “Resolved, that the ELCA commit itself to finding ways to allow congregations that choose to do so to recognize, support and hold publicly accountable lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships.”




 


Discussed for many  years accepting gays in monogamous same gender relationships yes, but not equating it with marriage so as not to offend many that would otherwise support this position


Note when they added resolution 1 they did not go near the word marriage ,my guess is that they knew it would never have  passed the majority necessary if they equated the relationship with marriage



They could have introduced a resolution that read as follows and then this present discussion would not need to be taking place


“Resolved, that the ELCA commit itself to finding ways to allow congregations that choose to do so to recognize, support and hold publicly accountable lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships to  the same rigorous standards, social activities, and status as heterosexual marriage.


But they did not.


So yes it was voted on, but the  it   was not about eventually having a marriage ceremony in the Lutheran church, it was about supporting monogamous same gender relationships


For the Lutheran church to change a universal mandate that God initiated in the Bible, that the Lutheran Church has supported for over 500 years the, the  covenant marriage between one man and one women, the  church leadership should discuss it,   vote on it and therefore have a consensus at the August 2016 Churchwide Assembly in New Orleans


------------------------------


PS.


The activist minority that were at the 2009 convention are surely happy maybe even gleeful that they have circumvented  a direct  vote on this matter but have gotten their  intended end result of  same sex marriage in the Lutheran Church .


If this is truly God's will, why fear a direct vote on the matter?









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