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2 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2015 - 9:19AM #51
weberhome02
Posts: 3,398


Q: Ever consider the fact that the Bible nowhere mentions that people go to heaven or hell at the moment of death?


A: I am unaware of that "fact" which in reality, is not a fact at all, but rather, simply a deficiency in someone's own personal knowledge of the Bible.


Paul was confident that at his departure, he would be with The Lord.


†. Php 1:23 . . I desire to depart and be with Christ


To "be with Christ" is to be in heaven because according to Acts 2:32-36 that is where the Bible's Jesus currently resides at his Father's right hand.


For believers such as myself, to be absent from the body; is to be present with The Lord.


†. 2Cor 5:6-8 . .Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with The Lord.


When the rich man and the beggar Lazarus died in Luke 16:19-31, the angels carried Lazarus to Abraham's section of the netherworld.


†. Luke 16:22 . .The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side.


It's obvious from the text that Abraham wasn't in the fiery section of the netherworld at the time. It could be argued he wasn't in heaven at the time either; but that would certainly not be true today. If Paul expected to be with The Lord at his passing; then I have no doubt Abraham and Lazarus are now with The Lord too.


Christ gave a fellow prisoner his word that they would both enter a paradise the very day of their crucifixions.


†. Luke 23:43 . . Jesus answered him; I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.


If Christ and his fellow prisoner went to a paradise the very day of their deaths, then can there be any doubt that the rich man went to the fiery section of the netherworld the very day of his own death, and Lazarus went to Abraham's section on the very day of his death?


Upon comparing texts, it becomes clear that nobody went to heaven prior to Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection. Old Testament saints went to comfortable accommodations in the netherworld where Abraham was at the time of the events narrated in Luke 16:19-31. And the damned went to you know where; and they are still there to this very day yearning for a damp swab to soothe their parched tongues.


Pop Clock Update: 156 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 9,387,300 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since January 21, 2015.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 29, 2015 - 10:06AM #52
weberhome02
Posts: 3,398


Q: According to Luke 23:39-43, Jesus went to paradise on the day of his death. If that's true, then why did he tell Mary Magdalene at John 20:17 that he had not yet ascended to the Father?


A: The koiné Greek word for "paradise" is paradeisos (par-ad'-i-sos) which basically identifies parks.


There are several notable urban parks in America e.g. New York's Central Park, San Diego's Balboa park, and San Francisco's Golden Gate Park, et al.


There are also several notable national parks too e.g. Yosemite, Yellowstone, Big Bend, Channel Islands, Glacier, and Olympic, et al.


However, whether urban or national; all of America's parks are parks regardless of size, quality and/or location.


According to Matt 12:39-40 and Acts 2:24 32, the park that Christ went to wasn't the big daddy of all parks up in the sky; viz: the paradise of God (Rev 2:7). No, he went down instead of up; to a lesser park. I'm guessing it was the same one where Abraham and Lazarus were dwelling in the 16th chapter of Luke.


Pop Clock Update: 159 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 9,387,300 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since January 21, 2015.


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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2015 - 12:36PM #53
weberhome02
Posts: 3,398


I was once challenged by an Atheist that if I believed so strongly in the existence of a hell; then what was I doing for people down there.


Well; I had to tell the Atheist that although it isn't God's wishes that people end up suffering in hell, it is His wishes that they suffer once they're there. So that even if it were in my power to do something to make their situation a bit more tolerable and/or a bit more comfortable-- which it isn't --I wouldn't dare attempt to circumvent God's wishes; and neither would Christ.


†. John 4:34 . . My food is to do the will of Him that sent me.


†. John 8:29 . . And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.


†. John 10:30 . . I and my Father are unified.


This means that Christ wouldn't have protested, nor interfered, in either Noah's Flood or the fiery destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah; even though a number of infants and underage children went to their deaths in both events.


Pop Clock Update: 162 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 9,748,350 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since January 21, 2015.


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2 years ago  ::  Jul 05, 2015 - 10:42AM #54
weberhome02
Posts: 3,398


†. Isa 14:12-17 . . For you said to yourself; I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God's stars. I will preside on the mountain of the gods far away in the north. I will climb to the highest heavens and be like the Most High.


. . . But instead, you will be brought down to the place of the dead, down to its lowest depths. Everyone there will stare at you and ask; Can this be the one who shook the earth and the kingdoms of the world? Is this the one who destroyed the land and made it into a wilderness? Is this the king who demolished the world's greatest cities and had no mercy on his captives?


In context; that passage targets an ancient Babylonian king, but serves to illustrate an important point: hell is a level field. Look around you at the celebrities, the socialites, the news anchors, the politicians, the stock brokers, the Warren Buffets, the Donald Trumps, the empire builders, the financial giants, the television moguls, the movie-makers, the civic leaders, the entrepreneurs, the fashion leaders, the intellectuals, the best-sellers, the Rock and Roll Hall of Famers, the Olympic stars and professional athletes, the Lewis & Clarks, the Charles Lindberghs, the Nobel Prize winners, the shuttle astronauts, the Hillary Clintons, the Barak Obamas, the Steve Jobs, the Mark Zuckerbergs, the Regis Philbins, the Oprah Winfrys, Congress, Supreme Court justices, the winners of Oscar and Tony and Grammy awards. In the Bible's hell, those kinds of people are just one more skull in a perpetual waste stream of losers.


†. Luke 16:19-23 . .There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham in the distance, with Lazarus by his side.


Can you just imagine that rich man's chagrin to see that homeless bum, who at one time dumpster-dived his own garbage, now in comfort while he himself is in misery? Isn't it interesting that the bum's name is given, but the rich man's isn't. You know why? Because he's now a forgotten man who no longer matters.


†. Ps 73:2-17 . . I came so close to the edge! My feet were slipping, and I was almost gone. For I envied the proud when I saw them prosper despite their wickedness. They seem to live such a painless life; their bodies are so healthy and strong. They aren't troubled like other people or plagued with problems like everyone else. They wear conceit like a jeweled necklace, and their clothing is woven of cruelty.


. . .These fat cats have everything their hearts could ever wish for! They scoff and speak only evil; in their arrogance they seek to crush others. They boast against the very heavens, and their words strut throughout the earth . . Look at these arrogant people-- enjoying a life of ease while their riches multiply . .Then one day I went into your sanctuary, O God; and I understood their destiny.


†. Ps 37:10-11 . . For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more; indeed, you will look carefully for his place, but it shall be no more. But the meek shall inherit the earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.


NOTE: People aren't eo ipso wicked because they're successful. It's success to the exclusion of God that's wicked. Compare Luke 12:15-21 where a successful man is depicted as totally focused on his enterprises while not giving a single thought to his association with God.


Pop Clock Update: 165 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 9,928,875 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since January 21, 2015.


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2 years ago  ::  Jul 08, 2015 - 12:07PM #55
weberhome02
Posts: 3,398


Of all the comments I've ever composed about hell over the years, this one is perhaps the most disturbing; so if there are underage children present, you might want to shoo them out of the room before continuing.


Lorena Bobbitt made news in 1993 by amputating her husband's manhood with a carving knife while he was asleep. She was later acquitted by reason of insanity. Lorena's conduct was by no means ground-breaking. Wikipedia lists a number of such cases involving women mutilating men.


Lorena's conduct was excusable under law because of her mental state; but there are perfectly rational, sane women out and about who would be overjoyed with ecstasy to mutilate a man; for example:


On August 01, 2009, four angry women-- Therese A. Ziemann, 47, Wendy L. Sewell, 44, Michelle M. Belliveau, 43, and Tracy M. Hood-Davis, 30 --were charged in Stockbridge Wisconsin for luring a married man to a motel room where they tied him up and blindfolded him, slapped him around for a while; then removed his knickers and used super glue to attach his private to his stomach in retaliation for two-timing them. I really have to wonder what in God's name is going on inside those women's heads.


According to the Beatitudes (Matt 5:3-11) heaven is a place of peace and kindness. Women whose imaginations are laced with wicked thoughts, having hearts infected with a brutal desire to injure men, simply can't go there. They would hate heaven anyway because they couldn't be themselves there and would never fit in. They would not only be prevented from assaulting men, but they wouldn't even be permitted the cruel enjoyment of chafing men with denigrating remarks and demeaning comments.


The lake of fire depicted in Rev 19:20, 20:11-15, and 21:8 is hot enough to ignite sulfur, so that if gorgeous girls like say Beyonce Knowles and Paris Hilton are among the damned, they will have to lose their faces and figures yet one more time via a horribly disfiguring mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a vat of molten iron. The lake of flaming sulfur will be a terrible heartbreak for the beautiful people.


In fire and ice, the first parts of the human body to be effected are the extremities: ears, nose, toes, fingers, and lips. And in the case of women, extremities would include their bosom. You twisted, man-hating women out there in cyberspace should be thinking about that. Your first few moments in fire will be the worst part. The first thing to go will be your hair, and then extremities. Your bosom is soft and vulnerable; and will not survive unscathed from total bodily immersion in molten sulfur; and guess which gender of the human race will be responsible for your death via third degree burns all over your entire body; head to foot? A male.


†. Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man He has appointed, and He proved this to everyone by raising him from the dead.


In the end, it will be the sweet little gentle, turn-the-other-cheek baby Jesus who casts malicious women into the lake and permanently ruins any chances they might have had for happiness in the future. For all eternity, condemned man-haters will grind their teeth with hot tears and white-knuckled fury that they ultimately lost out on everything because of one lone male's obsessive control over their lives; and I have no doubt whatsoever they will entertain years of happy-thoughts dreaming of mutilating Christ should they perchance ever manage to get their hands on him.


NOTE: There will no doubt be some bent noses over this post, and see it as denigrating to women (while conveniently ignoring that it's a double standard to think it's okay to denigrate men). Well, I have to ask, since when did women become a protected species? Women are not a protected species. There are just as many, if not more, women dehydrating in hades as men. You malicious women out there in cyberspace need to keep something in mind. When you meet up with Christ, he is not going to be impressed with the silkiness of your thighs nor the size of your bosoms; in point of fact; he will be quite determined to disfigure them.


†. Rom 2:9-11. .There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: For God does not show favoritism.


†. Rev 20:15 . . And whosoever's name was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Pop Clock Update: 168 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 10,109,400 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since January 21, 2015.


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2 years ago  ::  Jul 11, 2015 - 11:34AM #56
weberhome02
Posts: 3,398


Many years ago-- when I was a young single guy in my early twenties, living alone in a cheap rental --as I was listening to a radio preacher talk about hell, something in my mind took over; and I had the strangest sensation of falling off the earth into an abyss and nobody cared, nor did anybody miss me, nor did my disappearance cause any alarm nor make any difference.


The freeways remained busy with frustrated drivers and honking horns, people still got up to go to work, shoppers crowded the supermarkets and department stores, kids caught their buses to school, birds kept right on chirping, grass kept on growing, ocean waves went on rolling onto the beach, trains kept running, airlines kept flying, clouds moved across the sky; and all that.


My absence changed nothing nor disturbed anyone nor anything. The world kept right on turning, clocks went on ticking; and nature and man went right on with their business as usual without the slightest hiccup. At that moment I realized just how alone and how obscure people must feel when they exhale their final breath and cross over to the other side.


Back in March of 2015, Andrew Getty, an heir to J. Paul Getty's oil fortune, died at the age of 47. In life, Andrew had many friends. You know how many accompanied him on his journey across the river Styx? Not a one.


You gotta walk that lonesome valley,
You gotta walk it by yourself,
Nobody here can walk it for you,
You gotta walk it by yourself.
(Woody Guthrie)


Pop Clock Update: 171 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 10,289,925 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since January 21, 2015.


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2 years ago  ::  Jul 14, 2015 - 1:16PM #57
weberhome02
Posts: 3,398


When people waken at night within a burning home, and the hallways are obscured by smoke and fire: at that moment, all things-- bank accounts, cars, clothing, mementos, charge cards, pets, taxes, sex, careers, incomes, Obama care, immigration reform, who wins the California primary, Dancing With The Stars, who's at fault for Benghazi, the stars in their courses, or who's playing in the Super Bowl; whatever --pale in comparison to the importance of finding a way out before it's too late.


When you're facing imminent death; with the flames of hell already licking around your naked legs; it's at a time like that when you'd better hope to God that your spiritual leaders haven't steered you down the wrong road because there will be no time to seek a second opinion.


Pop Clock Update: 174 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 10,470,450 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since January 21, 2015.


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2 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2015 - 1:19PM #58
weberhome02
Posts: 3,398


Q: Doesn't Psalm 139:8 say that God is in hell?


A: The Hebrew word sometimes thought of as hell in that psalm is sheol, which doesn't eo ipso indicate a place of fiery suffering. Technically it simply indicates the netherworld; viz: an afterlife situation where all the dead go-- the young and the old, the good and the bad. The New Testament equivalent is haides; which means essentially the very same thing.


According to Jonah 2:6, sheol is located at the roots of the mountains; which indicates that it's deep in the earth as opposed to the earth's surface.


According to Luke 16:19-31, Luke 23:43, and Acts 2:25-31, sheol is divided into two communities: one for good people and one for bad people. No doubt the psalmist was referring to the good community when he said: "Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me." The people over in the bad community are not on those kinds of friendly terms with God so you probably won't find Him over there checking in with people from time to time to see if they need anything.


I'd say that the "right hand" of God refers to providence; which of course is something that people in the bad community are deprived. A pretty good illustration of their situation is that of abandoned little motherless street urchins wistfully peering through the plate glass window of a nice restaurant watching people drink and dine upon tasty beverages and savory foods that they themselves can only dream of.


Pop Clock Update: 177 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 10,650,975 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since January 21, 2015.


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2 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2015 - 10:00AM #59
weberhome02
Posts: 3,398


†. Gen 6:5 . .And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


It's freaky to contemplate that the Bible's God has a way to eavesdrop on one's mental processes on a level with which we are mostly unfamiliar.


†. Matt 15:18-19 . . For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts


So then, it's not how your mind works that defines you, no, it's how your heart works that defines you; and a man's heart is easily capable of hoodwinking his own consciousness.


†. Jer 17:9 . . The human heart is most deceitful and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?


There is a part of us that psychology labels the subconscious; which in Freud's opinion is a repository for socially unacceptable ideas, wishes or desires, traumatic memories, and painful emotions put out of mind by the mechanism of psychological repression. However, the contents do not necessarily have to be solely negative. In the psychoanalytic view, the subconscious is a force that can only be recognized by its effects-- in other words: your mind's thoughts can be construed not as replicas of your hearts thoughts; but rather, as symptoms of your heart's thoughts.


The key word in the above is repression. God is able to de-suppress those repressed contents and submit them as evidence in the prosecution's case against the accused. That means He will be confronting people with things that they never before really knew about themselves; and that's why I sometimes say only a fool would take their chances with the Bible's God. They have no clue the extent of the psychological tsunami they're walking into.


Pop Clock Update: 170 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 10,228,050 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since January 07, 2015.


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2 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2015 - 8:10AM #60
weberhome02
Posts: 3,398


Q: Since God created us the way we are; then He is ultimately responsible for our conduct; right?


A: Some years ago I went into a music store in San Diego and noticed that one of the store's glass display cases contained a large variety of rather curious bottles. So I asked the clerk what they were. He said they were bongs. You mean for smoking dope? I asked. He replied: Yes; that is their purpose. So I responded: But isn't dope illegal? He replied: Yes, dope is illegal, however we don't sell dope; we only sell the means to smoke it. You see; the responsibility for smoking dope was on the end-users of bongs rather than upon the sellers of bongs.


In a similar incident, I went into an electronics store to purchase a mobile CB radio and noticed an array of devices in the display case that I didn't recognize. The clerk told me they were linear amplifiers; which, he said, are devices for boosting a standard 5-watt CB's signal strength. I asked the clerk if that was legal. He said no, it isn't legal to boost the standard signal. However, he said, it isn't illegal to own equipment with the capability to do so. In other words; the law placed the responsibility for boosting CB signals on the end-user of linear amplifiers rather than the sellers of linear amplifiers.


What I'm getting at is: God created humanity with the capability to make bad choices. But at the same time, He created humanity with the capability to make good choices too. In the incident involving the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; Adam chose poorly. Does it make sense to blame God for Adam's stupidity? No. Adam knew the risk going in; but proceeded anyay.


But you see: so-called "product liability" is a convenient way of blaming others for our own failings. In other words: product liability's proponents insist that the availability of things like forbidden fruit, bongs, and linear amplifiers constitutes enablement. So these days instead of saying "The devil made me do it; therefore my conduct is his fault" now people say "I was provided the means to do it; therefore my conduct is the provider's fault."


Many of the products under sinks and out in garages are toxic; so manufacturers put warning labels on them. They do the same thing with electrical equipment, power tools, and mechanical devices so people can operate them safely and avoid injury. Now; placing those products for sale to the public constitutes enablement, but they're assuming end-users are intelligent enough to read warning labels and/or user's manuals. If users ignore warning labels and the cautions printed in manuals; it's their own fault for being stupid.


Pop Clock Update: 186 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 11,192,550 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since January 21, 2015.


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