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Switch to Forum Live View Nine Bishops Face Discipline
2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 8:47AM #1
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,881
Has anyone else heard about this? I've read a few articles relating to it, but I'm still confused as to what's going on. It all seems like overkill.

 www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news...
Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 9:40AM #2
Dutch777
Posts: 9,055

Bob,


That article is from Nov. 2004.  It's seriously out of date and old news.


Bp. Duncan has since moved on and become the "archbishop" of some schismatic group; possibly the ACNA --- or maybe the SPCA, for all I know or care.  Laughing

The Path to Moon Lake
doesn't go there.
So walk your own Dharma*Path;
be mindful.

Dutch
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 9:54AM #3
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,881

Jul 2, 2012 -- 9:40AM, Dutch777 wrote:


Bob,


That article is from Nov. 2004.  It's seriously out of date and old news.


Bp. Duncan has since moved on and become the "archbishop" of some schismatic group; possibly the ACNA --- or maybe the SPCA, for all I know or care.  Laughing




Oops!! You're right. It was reported from the steps of the Nave at the Church we were visiting yesterday as new news. Obviously, some people, including me, didn't check the dating.

Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 6:15PM #4
Dutch777
Posts: 9,055

Bob,


I believe you may be referring to the following:


episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2012/07/...

The Path to Moon Lake
doesn't go there.
So walk your own Dharma*Path;
be mindful.

Dutch
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 6:52PM #5
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,881

Jul 2, 2012 -- 6:15PM, Dutch777 wrote:


Bob,


I believe you may be referring to the following:


episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2012/07/...




There's also an update on The Lead here:


www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/bishops/bisho...

Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 8:42PM #6
Dutch777
Posts: 9,055

Bp. Martins knowingly filed an amicus curae brief with the court which weighed in favor of the breakaway diocese.  In his clarification, the bp. said this was to uphold the polity of TEC as an other-than unitary heirarchical structure.


The bp. is an uninvited butinski; this is gratutous interference in TEC's court case and his clarification is nothing but self-serving bull$#!+.  Some of these clergy must have tofu between their ears.

The Path to Moon Lake
doesn't go there.
So walk your own Dharma*Path;
be mindful.

Dutch
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 9:56PM #7
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,881

Jul 2, 2012 -- 8:42PM, Dutch777 wrote:


Bp. Martins knowingly filed an amicus curae brief with the court which weighed in favor of the breakaway diocese.  In his clarification, the bp. said this was to uphold the polity of TEC as an other-than unitary heirarchical structure.


The bp. is an uninvited butinski; this is gratutous interference in TEC's court case and his clarification is nothing but self-serving bull$#!+.  Some of these clergy must have tofu between their ears.




I don't understand the Canons that well. Is a Bishop forbidden from testifying or presenting arguments in a Ecclesiastical Court if he/she believes there is a valid point to make?

Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 10:35PM #8
Dutch777
Posts: 9,055

[/quote]


I don't understand the Canons that well. Is a Bishop forbidden from testifying or presenting arguments in a Ecclesiastical Court if he/she believes there is a valid point to make?


[/quote]


My knowledge of canon law could fit inside a walnut shell.  In any case, Bp.Martins filed his amicus curae brief in civil court; not canonical court.

The Path to Moon Lake
doesn't go there.
So walk your own Dharma*Path;
be mindful.

Dutch
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 7:36AM #9
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,881

Jul 2, 2012 -- 10:35PM, Dutch777 wrote:




I don't understand the Canons that well. Is a Bishop forbidden from testifying or presenting arguments in a Ecclesiastical Court if he/she believes there is a valid point to make?




My knowledge of canon law could fit inside a walnut shell.  In any case, Bp.Martins filed his amicus curae brief in civil court; not canonical court.




So it seems the Church should have absolutely nothing to say about civil court, other than that TEC was one of the litigants. Do clergy give up their civil rights?

Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 9:22AM #10
Dutch777
Posts: 9,055

[/quote]


So it seems the Church should have absolutely nothing to say about civil court, other than that TEC was one of the litigants. Do clergy give up their civil rights?


[/quote]
The corporate history of the episcopate clearly demonstrates that bishops have plenty to say; too much, in fact.   There is the appropriate forum within which the bishops may ventillate their views and inputs; it's called "General Convention".   The bishops may speak in civil court when subpoened or otherwise have a pressing and imminent cause for doing so, which was not the circumstance in this situation.  Their amicus curae brief was a voluntary input whose function was clearly to subvert TEC's legal position and strengthen the case for the schismatic Texas Diocese.  


  They swore an oath, as part of their consecration liturgy, to uphold and defend the canons and constitution of TEC, which set forth the Church's heirarchical structure.  In light of that, their voluntary amicus curae brief is subversive & treasonous and a violation of their episcopal oath.  It is also a transparent misrepresentation of the clearly heirarchical structure of TEC.   Those bishops have failed to exercise the wisdom and prudence required of their office. They must answer for their intrustive and oafish behavior.

The Path to Moon Lake
doesn't go there.
So walk your own Dharma*Path;
be mindful.

Dutch
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