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Switch to Forum Live View Vatican decision due on Medjugorje
5 years ago  ::  May 31, 2012 - 5:50PM #1
Gillibrand
Posts: 14

Guidelines for "appearances" and "messages" published 


The CDF published on 29 May Norms regarding the manner of proceeding in the discernment of presumed apparitions or revelations. They have formed since 1978 the standard by which the Church examines alleged apparitions. In Normae de modo procedendi in diiudicandis praesumptis apparitionibus ac reveationibus, it is noted that for "private revelations" that is "alleged apparitions, visions and messages to which supernatural origins are attributed" to be authentic, they must be focused on Jesus. They can "introduce new dimensions, bringing to light new forms of piety or deepening old," but they cannot in any way, "correct" Divine revelation or contradict this.


Guidelines date from 1978 - publication linked with Medjugorje?

The newly published guidelines were already on 25 February 1978 adopted by the CDF, as William Cardinal Levada, Prefect of the Congregation points out in his introduction. At that time, they were brought to the attention of the bishops, but not made known. The reason was that they concerned "primarily the pastors of the Church" said the Prefect. Why have they now been published? Is the disclosure in connection with the decision still-awaited in 2012 on Medjugorje?



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5 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2012 - 6:14AM #2
Mysty101
Posts: 2,025

Thanks for posting this.


I sincerely pray that the decision, which ever way it goes will be accepted.  Since apparitions, and private revelation (even those approved by the Church) are not part of the deposit of Faith, they should not be a point of contention for the Faithful.  It is not helpful to ponder them too deeply if they do not strengthen our Faith.


SuZ

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2012 - 2:47PM #3
Ed.W
Posts: 9,451

Is this the thread you were asking about...?


What decision is the pope supposed to make on it?  And by "it" I guess it has something to do with Medjugorje?



If he asked me, I'd tell him he needs to tactfully put the kabosh on it. 


From my experience with private revelations, others making pilgrimages to the place where someone else had a private revelation will serve no purpose, except to vendors along the way selling rosaries.  I don't think Mary is locked in to this location, or why this one private revelation, when there have been tens of thousands, seems to be so popular.



‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2012 - 4:40PM #4
Mysty101
Posts: 2,025

How do you feel about approved aparitions?


I agree that private experiences are more for the individual, than anyone else.  But if there are miracles, this is something strengthing to us all.


I have very mixed feelings about the whole subject.  One Good Friday my battery operated watch stopped from noon to 3:00pm.  Before services I visited my friend who was terminal from cancer in a nursing home.  To me this was a sign that there really is something  to hold on to, when I really needed it.  My B-I-L said it wasn't noon to 3 in the Holy Land.  I just said, "but the sign wasn't for someone in the Holy Land---it was for me."


SuZ

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2012 - 5:55PM #5
Ed.W
Posts: 9,451

Jun 7, 2012 -- 4:40PM, Mysty101 wrote:


How do you feel about approved aparitions?


I agree that private experiences are more for the individual, than anyone else.  But if there are miracles, this is something strengthing to us all.


I have very mixed feelings about the whole subject.  One Good Friday my battery operated watch stopped from noon to 3:00pm.  Before services I visited my friend who was terminal from cancer in a nursing home.  To me this was a sign that there really is something  to hold on to, when I really needed it.  My B-I-L said it wasn't noon to 3 in the Holy Land.  I just said, "but the sign wasn't for someone in the Holy Land---it was for me."


SuZ




I agree with you that your watch would stop according to your own local time.  Even if you had your watch set wrong.  And even if the actual crucifixion was not on Friday.  Maybe Jesus would make you understand it.


There is something to hold onto I believe, even if you don't get an apparition. 


But why Mary?  Why would she tell a person to trust in her Son that already trusted in her Son?  If Mary showed up (which I believe she could) and said that to me, I would have to re-evaluate my belief in her Son.  And I wouldn't be kicking my own butt, it wouldn't be that bad--especially if I was as observant as most of the apparitionees are-- maybe I would just focus on Jesus alone, maybe even to the exclusion of Mary, from that moment forward, rather than buying Mary statues or taking trips to where she was seen as a result.


Pretty much, Jesus sent his mother to tell somebody to get their mind on him.  But it would be a shame to not listen to her and focus on her even more.



This lady, Mirjana.  Check this out:


Mirjana: Our Lady prays together with me for the non-believers,[...]That is why She repeats: "When you pray for them, you are praying also for yourselves and for your future."


Jesus, (Jn 17,9:)


I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.


Jesus on our "future" (Mt 6,34)


Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day [is] the evil thereof.



I think Mirjana is making this up as she goes along.  And the church runs the risk of getting held hostage like this.  The Church should just say nothing more than what it has always said about private revelations. 



After reading this, you'll forget about apparitions.



The Orthodoxy of the messages


if there is one overriding theme to the Medjugorje messages, it is that of religious indifferentism.


The ‘seers’ verify that indifferentism is, indeed, the main message. Weible quotes verbatim some of the interviews with the alleged seers, found in Fr. Kraljevic’s book, The Apparitions of Our Lady at Medjugorje. In the first, Fr. Vlasic is interviewing Mirjana – who has just explained that "most people go to Purgatory."




Mirjana: The Madonna always stresses that there is but one God, and that people have enforced unnatural separation. One cannot truly believe, be a true Christian, if he does not respect other religions as well. You do not really believe in God if you make fun of other religions.


Vlasic: What, then, is the role of Jesus Christ, if the Moslem religion is a good religion?


Mirjana: We did not discuss that. She merely explained, and deplored, the lack of religious unity... She said that everybody’s religion should be respected, and, of course, one’s own.




Ivanka Ivankovic confirmed this teaching to Fr. Svetozar:




Ivanka: The Madonna said that religions are separated in the earth, but the people of all religions are accepted by her Son.


Fr. S: Does that mean that all people go to Heaven?


Ivanka: It depends on what they deserve.


Fr. S: Yes, but many have never heard about Jesus.


Ivanka: Jesus knows all about that; I don’t. The Madonna said, basically, religions are similar; but many people have separated themselves, because of religion, and become enemies of each other.



‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2012 - 8:56PM #6
Mysty101
Posts: 2,025

yes,  what is the big deal about a message to pray or trust in Jesus?  (This has been in the Sacred Heart Novena far longer than any of these visions)


I've been to the Holy Land, and it is a life changing experience.  A friend has been to Medjugorje, and feels the same way---I have no personal experience to give an informed response.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2013 - 12:42PM #7
abidingservant
Posts: 2

and we still wait... the Church moves slowly

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