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Switch to Forum Live View The United Methodist's "Africa Problem"
3 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 8:25PM #1
Nino0814
Posts: 1,772
The United Methodist Church is a global church, where more than 40 percent of the delegates to the General Conference are from outside of the USA.  With the decline of membership in the USA, and the growth (and merger) of churches in Africa, the UMC is increasing being led by radically right neo-fundamentalists in Africa.   

At the UMC's GC today, attempts to soften the language on homosexuality were defeated.  One delegate from Africa compared homosexuality to beasiality.  

It was another sad day for many in my former denomination: www.nytimes.com/2012/05/04/us/methodists...
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3 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 8:50PM #2
Dutch777
Posts: 9,136

Africans, with some very few happy exceptions, are living millenia in the past.   The physical, social and medical sciences are foreign to them.  On top of their acultural ignorance, they have a smug holier-than-thou attitude that they wear.  I've encountered this so many times.


Sub-Sahara Africa has contributed absolutely Nothing to the sum total of human knowledge of science and technologic development.  They are eternal beggers --- always bumming money from the developed nations.  They are their own worst enemies with their corrupt, ineffectual, human right abusive governments.  They practice forced female circumcision, child bride price (cows, goats and sheep in exchange for circumcized child brides), polygamy, voodoo and witchcraft.  Nevertheless, they pull this we are holier than the developed nations nonsense. 


Well, I'm sick and tired of their ignorant bull$#!+ and would be more than happy to cut them totally loose --- as in: aufwiedersehn; you're on your own; don't call us;  we'll call you (never); sink or swim.

The Path
To Moon Lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own Dharma*Path
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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3 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 9:34PM #3
slu_magoo
Posts: 1,003

I have mixed feelings about the UMC.


On the one hand, I graduated (magna cum laude, fyi) from a UMC college, majoring in history and religion.  The school was quite progressive overall, and the religion department was particularly progressive.  I loved the school, the professors, the philosophy. 


But when I've visited UMC churches, I have left feeling cold.  (Perhaps I need a sweater, eh?)  I'm in the South, and to be honest, many--if not most--of the UMC congregations in my part of the world are as fundamentlist as the Southern Baptist churches that sit on every corner. 


I know there are often disconnects between denominational schools and churches.  But I know of no denomination with a bigger gap between academia and parish life than the UMC. 


Interestingly, a prominent UMC theologian who was my primary religion professor in undergrad left the UMC when he retired...and joined the local Episcopal church, where he is now 'theologian in residence.'

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3 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 12:23AM #4
GRobit625
Posts: 2,006

Maybe they saw how well TEC handled the situation and the overflowing of people that are coming in that we are making disciples of Christ out of and based their decision on that, because we're just doing outstanding right now,right? Good on them for not going along with this fad. 

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3 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 9:37AM #5
Spokang
Posts: 942

May 3, 2012 -- 8:25PM, Nino0814 wrote:

The United Methodist Church is a global church, where more than 40 percent of the delegates to the General Conference are from outside of the USA.  With the decline of membership in the USA, and the growth (and merger) of churches in Africa, the UMC is increasing being led by radically right neo-fundamentalists in Africa.   

At the UMC's GC today, attempts to soften the language on homosexuality were defeated.  One delegate from Africa compared homosexuality to beasiality.  

It was another sad day for many in my former denomination: www.nytimes.com/2012/05/04/us/methodists...



Nino, 


I spent some time yesterday reading the reports from the UMC Conference. I was also in my very early years a Methodist, baptized in the Methodist Church in the cradle of Methodism in America, Savannah, Georgia. The UMC, like many of  the mainline churches are dealing with issues where science meets cultural myth. While some people may see these issues as fads, and as a cause for declining membership, the audience that we are trying to  address and bring into the church, most decidedly, do not.  



fb.trove.com/fbwapolabs/mobile/me/channe...


I hope this link works.


Jim


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3 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 9:51AM #6
Dutch777
Posts: 9,136

Jim & Nino,


Thoughtful comments.  The decline of TEC is associated with multiple causes; not a "one-issue" cause.  One problem, amongst several,  --- this was indicated to me, as I recall, by George Gallup during a seminar coffee break --- is that the average TECie invites a friend or neighbor to church once every 20 years.


Research by both the Gallup Organization and the Alban Institute, reveal that approx. 86% of all new TECies arrive by way of personal invitation.  This means that our most fruitful means of church growth is the least means utilized.  See a problem here?  This is so senseless, considering all that Anglicanism has to offer.

The Path
To Moon Lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own Dharma*Path
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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3 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 9:57AM #7
Spokang
Posts: 942

May 3, 2012 -- 9:34PM, slu_magoo wrote:


I have mixed feelings about the UMC.


On the one hand, I graduated (magna cum laude, fyi) from a UMC college, majoring in history and religion.  The school was quite progressive overall, and the religion department was particularly progressive.  I loved the school, the professors, the philosophy. 


But when I've visited UMC churches, I have left feeling cold.  (Perhaps I need a sweater, eh?)  I'm in the South, and to be honest, many--if not most--of the UMC congregations in my part of the world are as fundamentlist as the Southern Baptist churches that sit on every corner. 


I know there are often disconnects between denominational schools and churches.  But I know of no denomination with a bigger gap between academia and parish life than the UMC. 


Interestingly, a prominent UMC theologian who was my primary religion professor in undergrad left the UMC when he retired...and joined the local Episcopal church, where he is now 'theologian in residence.'




Like the Episcopal Church, the UMC has a broad range of churchmanship, which I'm sure you are aware of, from fundamentalism to "high church" practice. I grew up in the Methodist Church, going over to TEC in college.


Some UMC churches are trying to recover a catholic sacramentalism that they lost --- or never really practiced, although Wesley was a strong believer in regular celebration of the Lord's Supper. There is a UMC church, which you can see on the web, where there is a weekly eucharist and the pastor wears a chasuble and does all the ritual movements that one finds the more "catholic" churches. 


I watched the opening service of the UMC General Conference:  I  thought some of our  services were dolled up, ginchy affairs, but, oh brother, they win the prize for it.


www.umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.8054971...


This should be the link to the video. If not, check under multimedia, worship services.


Jim





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3 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 12:42PM #8
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

May 3, 2012 -- 8:50PM, Dutch777 wrote:


Africans, with some very few happy exceptions, are living millenia in the past.   The physical, social and medical sciences are foreign to them.  On top of their acultural ignorance, they have a smug holier-than-thou attitude that they wear.  I've encountered this so many times.


Sub-Sahara Africa has contributed absolutely Nothing to the sum total of human knowledge of science and technologic development.  They are eternal beggers --- always bumming money from the developed nations.  They are their own worst enemies with their corrupt, ineffectual, human right abusive governments.  They practice forced female circumcision, child bride price (cows, goats and sheep in exchange for circumcized child brides), polygamy, voodoo and witchcraft.  Nevertheless, they pull this we are holier than the developed nations nonsense. 


Well, I'm sick and tired of their ignorant bull$#!+ and would be more than happy to cut them totally loose --- as in: aufwiedersehn; you're on your own; don't call us;  we'll call you (never); sink or swim.





While I had met some gay blacks in this country, I noticed that a homoaversive attitude tends to be more predominant among most of the blacks I know, regardless of their religious affiliation. I wonder if this is as much a cultural prejudice as it is a religious one.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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3 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 12:58PM #9
Dutch777
Posts: 9,136

[/quote]

While I had met some gay blacks in this country, I noticed that a homoaversive attitude tends to be more predominant among most of the blacks I know, regardless of their religious affiliation. I wonder if this is as much a cultural prejudice as it is a religious one.h[/quote]


Roo,


Yes, I've noticed homoaversive attitudes amongst Blacks and Hispanics as well as amongst conservative & evangelical Whites.   I suspect the origin is cultural as well as religious but I can't say for sure.  On the overall, attitudes are definitely becoming more open towards the LGBT Community, which I personally deem a positive trend.

The Path
To Moon Lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own Dharma*Path
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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3 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 11:59PM #10
LitanyoftheSaints
Posts: 1,223

May 4, 2012 -- 9:57AM, Spokang wrote:






I watched the opening service of the UMC General Conference:  I  thought some of our  services were dolled up, ginchy affairs, but, oh brother, they win the prize for it.


www.umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.8054971...


This should be the link to the video. If not, check under multimedia, worship services.


Jim





I'm not all that surprised. While I was "church searching", I visited a Methodist church and the music was provided by a guy in a Hawaiian shirt playing an electric keyboard. Also, everyone in the church was given a name tag. I never darkened the door of that church again.


I walked into my local Episcopal church, and it was like, "aaaahhh...that's better!"


Not that I am putting down their way of worship. If it works for them, great. It's just not my cup 'o tea.

"The centrality of our mission is to love each other. That means caring for our neighbors. And it does not mean bickering about fine points of doctrine."- ++KJS
http://kjsfanpage.blogspot.com/
http://chicksinpointyhats.blogspot.com/

"We are to be Christ's hands and feet and heart and mind and we cannot do that if we assume God's role of judgment. The judge's job is filled. God alone is judge! Those who would be Saviors of the Church and the people in it are also reminded that the Savior's job has been filled. Jesus Christ filled it once for all. "- Bishop Rodney Michel
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