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The Curious Appeal of Roman Catholicism for Certain Latter-day Saint Intellectuals
4 months ago  ::  Jan 30, 2012 - 11:17PM #7
moksha8088
Posts: 4,174

Jan 30, 2012 -- 12:34AM, brent7 wrote:


"I believe that in the McConkie Doctrine book, that line about the great and abominable church was removed at the demand of the LDS Church.  Religious name calling is very unflattering to the caller."


I assume Moksha you are trying to civilly tell me I'm being rude or small.



No, I didn't intend to admonish you at all.  Wish I had of rewritten that sentence.  I like and respect you. Sorry.


What I meant to say is that any such interpretation of a line from the Book of Revelations is not interpreted by the LDS Church as applying to the Catholic Church. It was unfortunately stated that way in the first edition of the McConkie Doctrine.  That idea stemmed from the Protestant Revolution, back when they had long hair and smoked kippers. 

Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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4 months ago  ::  Jan 30, 2012 - 12:34AM #6
brent7
Posts: 45

"I believe that in the McConkie Doctrine book, that line about the great and abominable church was removed at the demand of the LDS Church.  Religious name calling is very unflattering to the caller."


I assume Moksha you are trying to civilly tell me I'm being rude or small. I do not rely on what McKonkie may have said about the Great and Abominable church. I have the revelations of Revelation, Daniel, 1 Nephi and the Holy Spirit to tell me. 1 Nephi said that this church removed the plain and simple truths of the Bible. Now let's see.... how many churches do you know that did this? 1 Nephi says this church "destroyed" the saints of God. There is one church with a history of repressive persecution, and killing by burning at the stake etc. 1 Nephi said that this church formed after the 12 apostles of the Lamb had died off.


Now I am not faulting the Presidency for not pointing their finger at the Catholic church for it was not for them to reveal this. It is for one only .... the angel that performs the next resurrection. D&C 88:94. The angel that shares the key of the Olden of Days and reveals the prophecies of Daniel - he reveals the Great and Abominable church. I respectfully submit that I am not religious name calling. The Lord Himself did that. He says this church is the great Whore and mother of harlots. The world may as well face it... the Lord is revealing it. It will I'm sure be very upsetting to the world for 1 Nephi says there will be war among the nations of this Great and Abominable church. I'm sure the Presidency does not feel ready for such contention nor feels willing to be the cause of it. So it appears that an angel will be scapegoated to bring forth this truth, but it will come forth. The Lord has spoken it.

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4 months ago  ::  Jan 29, 2012 - 9:31PM #5
MMCSFOX
Posts: 990

In my Burbank community there are very many residents that are very involved in helping others of all faiths. In my own optimist Club of some 50 plus members there are only two LDS, many Methodists, a few Catholics a couple Jews, all who are dedicated to community service and caring for all of their brothers and sisters. These are all great people so we can see that the Light of Christ can shine on each person whatever their religious leanings. That they do not have the full truth of the Gospel simply means to me that we need to continue to be an example that will bring others to seek that which we have. At the Optimist Youth Home (WWW.OYHFS.ORG) I see staff there working with kids others have thrown away, and being successful with most. I do not believe that it takes belonging to a particular religion to do Christ’s work. It helps, of course, but not necessary.


   Jesse F.


*


"The religion of Christ itself is not so much a set of ideas as it is a set of activities."
--Sterling W. Sill

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4 months ago  ::  Jan 29, 2012 - 9:00PM #4
moksha8088
Posts: 4,174

Jan 29, 2012 -- 2:12PM, brent7 wrote:


I also know for myself that the great and abomibable church ...



I believe that in the McConkie Doctrine book, that line about the great and abominable church was removed at the demand of the LDS Church.  Religious name calling is very unflattering to the caller.

Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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4 months ago  ::  Jan 29, 2012 - 2:12PM #3
brent7
Posts: 45

"Brigham Young University has recently seen a small parade of notable Catholic scholars and theologians honored at all-campus events, including Robert George and Francis Cardinal George, Catholic scholars invited to address smaller on-campus symposia, and the Deseret News has painted early Utah relations between the two churches as respectful and amicable.  In a Mormon Times piece, Dan Peterson states, "'The old Catholic church traditions are worth more than all you have said,' Joseph [Smith] told his followers in a sermon delivered less than two weeks before he himself was murdered by a mob. A strong foundation for friendship and respect toward Catholics was laid down in the earliest years of Mormonism.""



I need to review what Joseph said, because from this it does not appear he was trying to revere the Catholic church.


I have never been Catholic but I was taught by Jesuits and know their theology. I have had and hope to have a good number of Catholic friends. This does not mean tho that I accept their religion because I also know for myself that the great and abomibable church is the apostate church which changed the laws of God. Revelation says that the "light of the bridegroom shall shine no more at all in thee..." This means that this church once did have the light of the bridegroom but LOST it. Does the Catholic church fit this bill?


The Bible says that a bishop should be a husband. It also says that in latter times some shall depart from the faith forbidding to marry - among other things. Who else do you know who forbids to marry, and could be described as departing from the faith? Again this means a people who had the faith but left it. Catholics now believe to be closer to God they should abstain from marriage, while God has shown thru his greatest prophets that they should marry and that he would bless all the world through them with rare exception.  These ideas seem to have come from Paul, but he admitted that his belief on abstinance were not by commandment, but he apparently viewed his abstinance as better for his travels and ministry.


I can see a superficial appeal for certain aspects of Catholicism - it does maintain a priesthood, and some of the early structure of the Church - but it also retains a lot of introductions from the Roman pagan state and religion - such as the use of holy (salted) water for baptism. Christ, our exemplar, by contrast was baptized in ordinary river water. Diocese were originally a Roman military geographic unit, not a church unit - whereas the Bible mentions the ward units of Jerusalem. Christ was not born on the pagan Roman holiday of the Saturnalia (Dec 25), and there would be no shepherds out in the fields abiding their flocks at this time - but this date was another incorrect introduction that Christ must endure.


The eastern churches and their modern counterpart of the Orthodox church would hold more appeal for me because it didn't embrace the worst sins of the Catholic church which at its worst routinely burned and tortured heretics - something Christ would never do. While God at times commanded the stoning of false prophets, Christ did away with this aspect of the Mosaic law, and taught the people to spread the gospel through love and not punishments.


Maybe the Church feels it wise to curry the favor of the Catholic church. I see no problem in befriending members of the Catholic church - I feel they do mostly try to follow Christ. I am not in favor in any way of persecuting their members. I am only interested in teaching the truths of the gospel and how churches have departed from them, so that some eyes may be opened, and some may come to the full knowledge and glory of Christ, and learn for themselves that they can truly become like Christ, and truly inherit all that he hath. Seeing things like the invention of the Trinity by man, and other changes in God's law (holy water for baptism, and baptism by sprinkling, etc) is just part of this journey. Even though I was taught the Trinity in my youth, I now find it absolutely amazing that this introduction has been passed off as Bible truth, even though the Bible never once mentions it, and Jesus himself says many things showing how he was not the same as the Father - He prayed to the Father, He said the Father is greater than me, he said He did not have the authority to grant who would sit on His right nor His left hand - but also that someone would indeed do it - but this someone would obviously not be a Catholic believer in the Trinity, since there is no room in a trinity for any other members of the Godhead. Nor is there room for the gods of the hebrews who even Jesus said "is it not written in your law, I have said ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High. If the law calls those gods to whom the son of God now comes, how can ye say I blaspheme saying I am the son of God?" The truth is the churches have not understood the law at all - nor the Bible - but have departed from it, thus denying the fulness of the gospel to the peoples of the world - and in many respects are as blind as the Jews were, who did not accept that they were sons of God, even tho it was written in their law.

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4 months ago  ::  Jan 29, 2012 - 12:15AM #2
moksha8088
Posts: 4,174

For those who look to their religious leaders as the absolute authority in religious matters, both Catholicism and Mormonism fit the bill.  Some former posters on this forum have chosen to become Catholic and find that it more suits their spiritual needs.  I suppose every religious tradition has its appeal.  I know the LDS Church appeals to many including most of the posters here.  My own thinking is that these traditions put us on parallel treadmills.  Happy jogging.

Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 20, 2012 - 9:25AM #1
Acts 28:22
Posts: 1,225
The Curious Appeal of Roman Catholicism for Certain Latter-day Saint Intellectuals

An article from Square Two
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