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Switch to Forum Live View The Clergy Project - Atheists Who Support Unbelieving Clergy
1 year ago  ::  Dec 17, 2011 - 4:24PM #1
Nino0814
Nino0814
Posts: 1,491
An Atheist ministry?  I guess that is one way to describe "The Clergy Project".  It is a support group for clergy of various denominations whose doubts have grown into unbelief, and are looking to transition out of the ministry.  I am a but surprised to see that Episcopalian priests have joined, since we have a few NonThesist clergy.   

It must be a horrible "place to be" for unbelieving clergy whose Faith requires belief in very specific dogmas.   

Does anyone know if the ECUSA has programs to support our clergy who feel they should transition out of ministry?
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 17, 2011 - 10:04PM #2
GRobit625
GRobit625
Posts: 1,798

They should resign their ministry with dignity. They can no longer provide pastoral care. It's called, get another occupation if you can't handle this vocation.
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 17, 2011 - 10:07PM #3
JimRigas
JimRigas
Posts: 2,440

The priest business is one area where a lot of knowledge is bad thing.  One needs a constantly increasing amount of faith to oppose an increasing amount of knowledge.  In the fairy tale, "the king without clothes" did finish the parade, but all kings would not have had that much faith in their tailor.
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 18, 2011 - 10:42AM #4
Dutch777
Dutch777
Posts: 8,698

Dec 17, 2011 -- 10:04PM, GRobit625 wrote:

They should resign their ministry with dignity. They can no longer provide pastoral care. It's called, get another occupation if you can't handle this vocation.




Yes, if you're no longer "there"   go somewhere else; do something else.


Become a psychotherapist or a social worker or the local Good Humor man.  Be honest with yourself and others; hop on your white secularist stallion and gallop off into the non-theistic sunset, Kimosabe.


It's the right thing to do.  You'll still have your hyper-generous TEC pension + benefits. Kiss

Walk Your Own DharmaPath; be awake.

The Socratic Standard:  Follow the evidence;____ if it doesn't make sense, it's bull$#!+.

Dutch
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 18, 2011 - 10:51AM #5
Dutch777
Dutch777
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Dec 17, 2011 -- 10:07PM, JimRigas wrote:

The priest business is one area where a lot of knowledge is bad thing.  One needs a constantly increasing amount of faith to oppose an increasing amount of knowledge. 




A seriously succulent statement !


I wish I had originated it.


Mind if I plagerize it ? Smile

Walk Your Own DharmaPath; be awake.

The Socratic Standard:  Follow the evidence;____ if it doesn't make sense, it's bull$#!+.

Dutch
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 18, 2011 - 12:06PM #6
Roodog
Roodog
Posts: 9,742

Dec 17, 2011 -- 10:04PM, GRobit625 wrote:

They should resign their ministry with dignity. They can no longer provide pastoral care. It's called, get another occupation if you can't handle this vocation.


I agree,it is better to own up to one's unbelief and maybe enter Psycologial practice than to practice hypocrisy by remaining in the Ministry as unbelievers.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 18, 2011 - 12:32PM #7
Dutch777
Dutch777
Posts: 8,698

Latching onto the concept of "non-belief", like monkey onto a mango, I'll post this here.  Only the first paragraph is directly relevant.  Richard Dawkins declares himself a cultural Anglican --- and would even read a lesson in church if asked to do so.  I'd ask him; wouldn't you?  Cool


www.newstatesman.com/religion/2011/12/religious-faith-children

Walk Your Own DharmaPath; be awake.

The Socratic Standard:  Follow the evidence;____ if it doesn't make sense, it's bull$#!+.

Dutch
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 18, 2011 - 12:47PM #8
Roodog
Roodog
Posts: 9,742

Dec 18, 2011 -- 12:32PM, Dutch777 wrote:


Latching onto the concept of "non-belief", like monkey onto a mango, I'll post this here.  Only the first paragraph is directly relevant.  Richard Dawkins declares himself a cultural Anglican --- and would even read a lesson in church if asked to do so.  I'd ask him; wouldn't you?  Cool


www.newstatesman.com/religion/2011/12/religious-faith-children





With all due respect, religion is all about belief, if one does not believe in God, how can they minister and speak in the Name of someone they do not believe exists?

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 18, 2011 - 1:47PM #9
Nino0814
Nino0814
Posts: 1,491

Dec 18, 2011 -- 12:32PM, Dutch777 wrote:


Latching onto the concept of "non-belief", like monkey onto a mango, I'll post this here.  Only the first paragraph is directly relevant.  Richard Dawkins declares himself a cultural Anglican --- and would even read a lesson in church if asked to do so.  I'd ask him; wouldn't you?  Cool


www.newstatesman.com/religion/2011/12/religious-faith-children




Absolutely!  He has a good voice for it.  


I also think we can learn a great deal from his critique of religious belief; like for example his statement, "The very idea that we might get our morals from the Bible or the Quran will horrify any decent person today who takes the trouble to read those books - rather than cherry-pick the verses that happen to conform to our modern secular consensus." 


Few have actually read and understood the scriptures in context.  Perhaps that is a good thing, otherwise we would be a less compassionate people.  
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1 year ago  ::  Dec 18, 2011 - 3:05PM #10
RJMcElwain
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,683

Dec 18, 2011 -- 12:47PM, Roodog wrote:


Dec 18, 2011 -- 12:32PM, Dutch777 wrote:


Latching onto the concept of "non-belief", like monkey onto a mango, I'll post this here.  Only the first paragraph is directly relevant.  Richard Dawkins declares himself a cultural Anglican --- and would even read a lesson in church if asked to do so.  I'd ask him; wouldn't you?  Cool


www.newstatesman.com/religion/2011/12/religious-faith-children





With all due respect, religion is all about belief, if one does not believe in God, how can they minister and speak in the Name of someone they do not believe exists?




For many clergy, belief in God becomes a matter of semantics and mental gynmastics. For many, a single definition of God is not enough.



Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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