Dec 16, 2011 -- 12:50AM, WaveringCC wrote:

Do you all agree?  
 http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/dec/14/church-of-england-future-bleak

Yes, the future for the CoE looks as bleak as the future for buggy whips.

European and British societies tend to be non-religious in outlook --- or at least apathetic.  I don't know what the solution is, or even if there is a solution.  Perhaps the institutional church as we know it is an anachronism, like the coelacanth.

www.abdn.ac.uk/~nhi708/images/coelacanth.jpg

The Church of England was Henry the VIII's answer to Imperial Religion from Rome.  "Send them home and start your own."  Okay, he didn't say that, but he did that.

Immersed in our traditions, we often forget how things came to be, or see where they're headed.

State religion was only used by Henry to send Rome packing.  Henry didn't want to bend his knee to a Pope, but insisted on his and England's sovereignty.

Before Rome's interferrence, Christianity existed England, as well as Ireland, Wales, and Scotland; in the form of community churches, i.e., the Celtic church.  Community churches are a great idea.  Imagine what could be done without the trickle up effect of funds. 

Perhaps we are not seeing the decline of faith as much as religious empires.  

Jan 6, 2012 -- 5:03AM, BBarton wrote:

..................................Before Rome's interferrence, Christianity existed England, as well as Ireland, Wales, and Scotland; in the form of community churches, i.e., the Celtic church.  Community churches are a great idea.  Imagine what could be done without the trickle up effect of funds. 

Perhaps we are not seeing the decline of faith as much as religious empires.  

  

Excellent point. We've been having very similar conversations about hierarchy in our Diocese lately.

Jan 6, 2012 -- 9:40AM, RJMcElwain wrote:

Jan 6, 2012 -- 5:03AM, BBarton wrote:

..................................Before Rome's interferrence, Christianity existed England, as well as Ireland, Wales, and Scotland; in the form of community churches, i.e., the Celtic church.  Community churches are a great idea.  Imagine what could be done without the trickle up effect of funds. 

Perhaps we are not seeing the decline of faith as much as religious empires.  

  

Excellent point. We've been having very similar conversations about hierarchy in our Diocese lately.

Yes, what is the saying about letting your money sweat in your palm before irresponsibly giving it away?  Who can turn a blind eye as we see our neighbors, family and friends get eaten by the backside of greed, the Phalse Profit?  -For isnt' that the decision maker for so many; individuals, nations, and their endeavors, religious, medical, or otherwise?

We give of resources, time, and talent, like probably most of you, but it seems they're forever wanting more.  Pay someone's mortgage, who lost their job and unemployment ran out.  You want to see gratitude?  Religion has a deal with state; we get to deduct our donations to the hierarchy.  We don't get to deduct helping the needy; unless it's through an organization most of which have the very top living like princes of the earth.

It is the few who threaten the hierarchy itself, not the faith.  The faith was before them and will continue regardless.  Christ, the Holy Spirit and a personal relationship to our Father cannot be subjugated by man.   

So is the bleak outlook for CofE and the rest of Europe a precursor for TEC and the rest of mainline Christianity in the USA?

More specifically, does TEC need 105 Dioceses and accompanying hierarchy?