Post Reply
Switch to Forum Live View Crackers and Grape Juice, Body and Blood
3 years ago  ::  Jun 25, 2011 - 11:36PM #1
Kelliotes
Posts: 24

What is the spectrum of possible Baptist belief on this: Are the bread and wine of the communion service really and truly the Body and Blood of the Saviour Christ?

Herman Monk
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2011 - 8:22PM #2
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Jun 25, 2011 -- 11:36PM, Kelliotes wrote:


What is the spectrum of possible Baptist belief on this: Are the bread and wine of the communion service really and truly the Body and Blood of the Saviour Christ?

Herman Monk




The Baptist belief is that the elements are NOT the body and blood of Christ but we hold to a commemorative stance of the Lord's  Table. I know of no Baptist who holds that the elements are actually the body and blood of Christ. 


 


 

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2011 - 10:49PM #3
Kelliotes
Posts: 24

I take it this is your personal view as a Baptist.


Could you develop it a bit for me in scriptural terms? The commemorative aspect is clear -- what I'm interested in is specifically the Body and Blood.


H

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Jun 29, 2011 - 10:50PM #4
Kelliotes
Posts: 24

[three days later:]


 


Maybe it will help if I put it a little differently:


Concerning the Body and Blood of Christ in the Divine Mysteries: What is the Apostolic tradition on this matter?What do the Apostles say about it? What do they record the Saviour Himself as saying?


Once again, the question is not about the aspects  of remembrance nor of thanksgiving in the Eucharist, but specifically about the Divine and Apostolic teaching concerning the Body and Blood of Christ in the Lord's Supper.


H

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2011 - 1:18PM #5
Kelliotes
Posts: 24

[three days more]


 


+ Perhaps I'm confusing things a bit. Let's go back. Here's the original question:


Are the bread and wine of the communion service really and truly the Body and Blood of the Saviour Christ?


Roodog gave his opinion in [approximately] these words:


The Baptist belief is that the elements are NOT the body and blood of  Christ, but we hold to a commemorative [understanding] of the Lord's Table. I  know of no Baptist who holds that the elements are actually the body and  blood of Christ.


At this time there have been probably at least 50 viewers of this thread. Are there any Baptists here who agree with Roodog's view? If so, is there anyone who can present this view in Scriptural terms? Or is there perhaps a non-Baptist who agrees with Roodog's view and is willing to attempt a defense of it -- in scriptural terms.


I'm not here to argue the point. I'm looking for an understanding of the point. But I'm looking for a scriptural understanding, if one is possible. If you express a view I'm not going to just take your word for it. I'm looking for the scriptural support for this view. There must be such support; otherwise a Bible-thumping Baptist would instantly reject it.


Can this view be supported?


H


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Jul 28, 2011 - 9:07PM #6
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Jul 2, 2011 -- 1:18PM, Kelliotes wrote:


[three days more]


 


+ Perhaps I'm confusing things a bit. Let's go back. Here's the original question:


Are the bread and wine of the communion service really and truly the Body and Blood of the Saviour Christ?


Roodog gave his opinion in [approximately] these words:


The Baptist belief is that the elements are NOT the body and blood of  Christ, but we hold to a commemorative [understanding] of the Lord's Table. I  know of no Baptist who holds that the elements are actually the body and  blood of Christ.


At this time there have been probably at least 50 viewers of this thread. Are there any Baptists here who agree with Roodog's view? If so, is there anyone who can present this view in Scriptural terms? Or is there perhaps a non-Baptist who agrees with Roodog's view and is willing to attempt a defense of it -- in scriptural terms.


I'm not here to argue the point. I'm looking for an understanding of the point. But I'm looking for a scriptural understanding, if one is possible. If you express a view I'm not going to just take your word for it. I'm looking for the scriptural support for this view. There must be such support; otherwise a Bible-thumping Baptist would instantly reject it.


Can this view be supported?


H


 




No, Paul said the bread and wine were specifically to remember Jesus pain and suffering


1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.  25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.


i.e. symbolic


Similiarly, Jesus said "eating his flesh" was a spiritual saying and not to be taken literally:


Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60  Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? {offend: or, scandalize, or, cause you to stumble}  62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Non Quis, Sed Quid
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2011 - 12:23PM #7
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Jul 2, 2011 -- 1:18PM, Kelliotes wrote:


[three days more]


 


+ Perhaps I'm confusing things a bit. Let's go back. Here's the original question:


Are the bread and wine of the communion service really and truly the Body and Blood of the Saviour Christ?


Roodog gave his opinion in [approximately] these words:


The Baptist belief is that the elements are NOT the body and blood of Christ, but we hold to a commemorative [understanding] of the Lord's Table. I know of no Baptist who holds that the elements are actually the body and blood of Christ.


At this time there have been probably at least 50 viewers of this thread. Are there any Baptists here who agree with Roodog's view? If so, is there anyone who can present this view in Scriptural terms? Or is there perhaps a non-Baptist who agrees with Roodog's view and is willing to attempt a defense of it -- in scriptural terms.


I'm not here to argue the point. I'm looking for an understanding of the point. But I'm looking for a scriptural understanding, if one is possible. If you express a view I'm not going to just take your word for it. I'm looking for the scriptural support for this view. There must be such support; otherwise a Bible-thumping Baptist would instantly reject it.


Can this view be supported?


H


 





The Book of Hebrews refers to the finished work of Jesus Christ at the Cross. It is finished, done completed and consumated. No more can be done.


The Catholic teaching of the daily sacrifice of the Mass is in direct contradiction of the completed work of Christ. The Book of Hebrews says it's wrong as wrong can be.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2011 - 11:03AM #8
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Jul 29, 2011 -- 12:23PM, Roodog wrote:

 



The Book of Hebrews refers to the finished work of Jesus Christ at the Cross. It is finished, done completed and consumated. No more can be done.


The Catholic teaching of the daily sacrifice of the Mass is in direct contradiction of the completed work of Christ. The Book of Hebrews says it's wrong as wrong can be.




Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Non Quis, Sed Quid
Quick Reply
Cancel
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook