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3 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2012 - 5:11PM #21
Ironhold
Posts: 11,585

Not only did I get a response (which is rare in and of itself) it was both same-day *and* polite.




Dear ______,


 


You have reached the LCMS Church Information Center, and I appreciate the opportunity to serve you. I will forward your comments to our Commission on Theology and Church Relations staff. Thank you for taking the time to send them in. God bless your day.


 


Serving Him and you! Until next time,


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3 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2012 - 12:44PM #22
Ironhold
Posts: 11,585

............aaaaaaaaaand I got the brush-off.




Dear ______:


 Thank you for your questions concerning the views of The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod and Mormon teachings. We appreciate your stated desire to “interact with those of other faiths” and we are sorry that you found fault with the “What About Mormonism?” tract. However, we do believe that the Mormon faith rejects the historic, orthodox teachings of the Christian Church. The following question and answer are found on the “Frequently Asked Questions” page of the LCMS website:


Q: Are Mormons generally regarded as Christians, and how do their beliefs differ from those of the Missouri Synod?


A: The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod, together with the vast majority of Christian denominations in the United States, does not regard the Mormon church as a Christian church. That is because the official writings of Mormonism deny fundamental teachings of orthodox Christianity. For example, the Nicene Creed confesses the clear biblical truth that Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Trinity, is "of one substance with the Father." This central article of the Christian faith is expressly rejected by Mormon teaching—thus undermining the very heart of the scriptural Gospel itself. In a chapter titled "Jesus Christ, the Son of God: Are Mormons Christian?" the president of Brigham Young University (Rex Lee, What Do Mormons Believe? [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1992] summarizes Mormon teaching by stating that the three persons of the Trinity are "not... one being" (21), but are "separate individuals." In addition, the Father is regarded as having a body "of flesh and bone" (22). Such teaching is contrary to the Holy Scriptures, destructive to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and indicative of the fact that Mormon teaching is not Christian.


 You might be interested in reading an evaluation of The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints done by the Commission on Theology and Church Relations. This well-researched and well-documented report evaluates Mormon teachings and compares those teachings with the doctrines of the Lutheran Church. The evaluation can be found on the LCMS website at the following link: www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=38... .


Another resource in which you might be interested is the book Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon? by Wayne L. Cowdry, Howard A. Davis, and Arthur Vanick (St. Louis: CPH, 2005), available for purchase at www.cph.org .


We hope that this information is helpful to you.


CTCR Staff



Is this a normal response?



Thanks.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2012 - 2:31PM #23
G_Erdner
Posts: 170

Feb 10, 2012 -- 12:44PM, Ironhold wrote:


............aaaaaaaaaand I got the brush-off.



Is this a normal response?



Thanks.




Getting a canned form letter as a response is what you should have expected. That's the response you would have gotten from most institutions that you approached as you did.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2012 - 2:36PM #24
teilhard
Posts: 51,833

"Mormons" are obviously neither "Catholic" nor "Orthodox" Christians, but they ARE "Christians," as were The Arians and Docetists of long ago, The Watchtower Society, "Christian Science" devotees, The "Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity," The Swedenborgians, The Unitarians, et al. ...

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2012 - 3:34PM #25
G_Erdner
Posts: 170

Feb 11, 2012 -- 2:36PM, teilhard wrote:


"Mormons" are obviously neither "Catholic" nor "Orthodox" Christians, but they ARE "Christians," as were The Arians and Docetists of long ago, The Watchtower Society, "Christian Science" devotees, The "Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity," The Swedenborgians, The Unitarians, et al. ...




Sorry, but that's not something that anyone can just make some sort of declaration and expect the declaration to be accepted because it was declared. If you are going to claim that merely claiming to be Christian is enough for a cult to actually be Christian, then you need to explain just how you define the word "Christian". To most of us who claim to be Christian, being "Christian" has meaning beyond just making an unsubstantiated claim. It means being part of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Not everyone who claims to be Christian is making an accurate claim.




 

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2012 - 3:44PM #26
teilhard
Posts: 51,833

A "Christian" is a Devotee-Disciple-Follower of The Lord Jesus The Christ of Nazareth, independently of embracing a particular Christology ...


But ... Are you claiming that there were NO Authentic "Christians" before The Formulation of The Ecumenical Creeds ... ???  Interesting ...


Feb 11, 2012 -- 3:34PM, G_Erdner wrote:


Feb 11, 2012 -- 2:36PM, teilhard wrote:


"Mormons" are obviously neither "Catholic" nor "Orthodox" Christians, but they ARE "Christians," as were The Arians and Docetists of long ago, The Watchtower Society, "Christian Science" devotees, The "Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity," The Swedenborgians, The Unitarians, et al. ...




Sorry, but that's not something that anyone can just make some sort of declaration and expect the declaration to be accepted because it was declared. If you are going to claim that merely claiming to be Christian is enough for a cult to actually be Christian, then you need to explain just how you define the word "Christian". To most of us who claim to be Christian, being "Christian" has meaning beyond just making an unsubstantiated claim. It means being part of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Not everyone who claims to be Christian is making an accurate claim.




 





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3 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2012 - 5:15PM #27
G_Erdner
Posts: 170

Feb 11, 2012 -- 3:44PM, teilhard wrote:


A "Christian" is a Devotee-Disciple-Follower of The Lord Jesus The Christ of Nazareth, independently of embracing a particular Christology ...


But ... Are you claiming that there were NO Authentic "Christians" before The Formulation of The Ecumenical Creeds ... ???  Interesting ...




Not too familiar with the 8th Commandment, are you?



 

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2012 - 11:01PM #28
teilhard
Posts: 51,833

Yes, I am quite familiar with "The Eighth Commandment" ...


So I try to place the kindest Construction on everything my Neighbor says and does, whether (s)he is "Catholic" or "Orthodox" or "Heterodox" ... or "Other" ...


Feb 11, 2012 -- 5:15PM, G_Erdner wrote:


Feb 11, 2012 -- 3:44PM, teilhard wrote:


A "Christian" is a Devotee-Disciple-Follower of The Lord Jesus The Christ of Nazareth, independently of embracing a particular Christology ...


But ... Are you claiming that there were NO Authentic "Christians" before The Formulation of The Ecumenical Creeds ... ???  Interesting ...




Not too familiar with the 8th Commandment, are you?



 





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3 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 12:25AM #29
allan444
Posts: 275

I think this is a very important  topic . What exactly is a Christian?


                                                            _________


Since Jesus Christ claimed to be God and the only way to eternal life,
 one would assume his followers  “ a Devotee-Disciple-Follower of The Lord Jesus The Christ of Nazareth,” would believe the same and would also  believe  that Jesus was the creator and not someone created.
                                                        _________



==========================================================================


John 8:58 :  Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."


‘I John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


John 10:9: "I AM the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved


John 11:25: Jesus said to her, "I AM the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.



John 14:6: Jesus said to him, "I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.


 =======================================================



Despite claims at being followers of Jesus  (Christians) John would  say that  those who disagree with some basic  core  beliefs are not true followers but are instead making God out to be a "liar"
I John 5 10-12


 


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3 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 10:09AM #30
teilhard
Posts: 51,833

The Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth was/is a PERSON to be followed -- not a "Christology" to be believed ...


Feb 26, 2012 -- 12:25AM, allan444 wrote:


I think this is a very important  topic . What exactly is a Christian?


                                                            _________


Since Jesus Christ claimed to be God and the only way to eternal life,
 one would assume his followers  “ a Devotee-Disciple-Follower of The Lord Jesus The Christ of Nazareth,” would believe the same and would also  believe  that Jesus was the creator and not someone created.
                                                        _________



==========================================================================


John 8:58 :  Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."


‘I John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


John 10:9: "I AM the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved


John 11:25: Jesus said to her, "I AM the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.



John 14:6: Jesus said to him, "I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.


 =======================================================



Despite claims at being followers of Jesus  (Christians) John would  say that  those who disagree with some basic  core  beliefs are not true followers but are instead making God out to be a "liar"
I John 5 10-12


 


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