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Switch to Forum Live View Desperately Need To Repent - Can't Feel Godly Sorrow
7 years ago  ::  May 17, 2011 - 3:42PM #21
arabianhorselover
Posts: 85

I guess it depends on what we mean by "control our lives".  I do manage to hold down a job, be a wife, mother, etc. despite this problem.  I also attend church every week.  However, I spend time thinking about it every day, and engaging in the behavior every day.

God Has Always Been With Me - Even Though I Haven't Realized It.
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7 years ago  ::  May 17, 2011 - 3:52PM #22
WannabeTheo
Posts: 401

May 17, 2011 -- 2:52PM, arabianhorselover wrote:


I was hoping to find someone else who had been where I am.  Apparently, none of you have.






Fair enough.  I may have more to say later about 'Godly grief', which is a reference to 2 Cor 7:10, if anyone wants to look it up.  But for now all I can say is that I'll pray for you.

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7 years ago  ::  May 17, 2011 - 3:59PM #23
arabianhorselover
Posts: 85

Thank you.  I really appreicate that.

God Has Always Been With Me - Even Though I Haven't Realized It.
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7 years ago  ::  May 17, 2011 - 4:00PM #24
WannabeTheo
Posts: 401

Arabianhorselover,


I'll add that it seems to me you are experiencing Godly grief, as you have a sincere desire, even a desperation, to change and center your life on God.  I don't know why you think you don't have Godly grief, unless you believe that if you did have Godly grief, you would be released from your compulsion to overeat; and so you assume the fact that you still overeat is evidence that you have not repented.


I don't believe this is true.  I suggest you read Romans 7:15-25.  I think you will be able to relate to Paul.  I know I can.

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7 years ago  ::  May 17, 2011 - 4:07PM #25
WannabeTheo
Posts: 401

For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation and brings no regret, but worldly grief produces death. (2 Cor 7:10)


As an aside, I wonder if this is where Charles Shultz (of Peanuts, i.e. Charlie Brown and Snoopy fame) got the phrase 'Good Grief'.


now back to work

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7 years ago  ::  May 17, 2011 - 5:36PM #26
Jeansmama
Posts: 37

May 17, 2011 -- 2:40PM, arabianhorselover wrote:

You misunderstand.  I said I did not feel "Godly Sorrow".  I feel plenty of "worldly sorrow".  They are not the same.  Worldly Sorrow does not cause a person to change their behavior.


I have been to counseling.  I have been to OA.  I have done the Weighdown Workshop.  I have read Geneen Roth's books.  I have talked to my pastor.  None of that has helped.  I still stubbornly refuse to give up this habit, or whatever you choose to call it.


I am not trying to reject anyone's help.  It is just that none of you are giving me the kind of help I need - the kind of help I came here for.  You all seem to believe that gluttony is not a sin.  You all seem to believe that God is just going to overlook the fact that he is not the God of my life.  Food is.  I don't eat to live.  I live to eat.  


You all seem to believe in "once saved, always saved".  I don't believe that.  I believe a person can lose their salvaton.  I don't know if I've lost mine, or if I've never had it, but in any case, I want it back.


 


 


 


 


 


May 17, 2011 -- 2:09PM, WannabeTheo wrote:


Arabianhorselover,


I have to admit, I'm a bit confused.  Your first post indicated you don't feel bad enough about overeating to change, but every post you've made here indicates that you feel plenty of guilt about it.  You believe it is a sin and something you need to change.


May 17, 2011 -- 1:23PM, arabianhorselover wrote:


Remember how when Jesus would forgive people he would tell them to "go and sin no more"?





And that is what people here are trying to help you do!  You've been given excellent advice on how to deal with overeating, including the names of several support groups.  But you repeatedly reject the advice because you seem to have some preconceived notion about how God is supposed to go about 'fixing you'.  You apparently believe that if you could just feel badly enough about it, God will provide a miracle cure.  I suggest you read 2 Kings 5:1-14.  God doesn't always act the way we expect or want him to.  His actions in our lives are often quite mundane.


God can release us from addictions, but how he goes about doing that can vary.  There is nothing wrong with support groups or medical help or counseling; God can work through these as well.  God is bigger than religion.






You just said it. "I still stubbornly refuse...".  Until you are willing to change, nothing will change.  It's a hard lesson to learn, but it is also very true. 

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7 years ago  ::  May 17, 2011 - 7:34PM #27
tawonda
Posts: 4,367

Arabianhorselover: Please consider what I'm about to say very carefully.


You've heard that joke, haven't you, about the woman in the flood who, as the water kept rising around her house, prayed for a miracle to save her.  A sheriff's deputy in a Jeep stopped at her home and urged her to leave with the officer before the water rose more. "No," the woman declined." "I'm waiting for God to save me. I just know God will save me." The water kept rising; soon the water was up to the first-floor window. A neighbor in a boat came by; seeing the woman in the window, he urged her to climb in the boat. "No," insisted the woman. "God is going to perform a miracle and save me." Pretty soon the water was up to the second story, and the woman was forced to sit on her roof. A National Guard rescue helicopter appeared and swooped down, and a Guardsman pleaded with the woman to let him take her off the roof. The woman was adamant. "I'm waiting for God," she stated emphatically. God is going to be the one to save me."


Eventually the water crested over the roof of the house. The woman was swept away and drowned. In heaven she confronted God: "WHERE WERE YOU? WHY DIDN'T YOU SAVE ME? WHY DID YOU LET ME DROWN?"


To which God responded: "Hey, lady -- I sent you a police car, a boat and a helicopter. What more did you want?"


There is a sin of pride that can set someone up to want to be, for all intents and purposes, holier than God. Refusing to believe that God's forgiveness is a reliable, ongoing process in your life because that scenario doesn't fit your preconceived (and un-Lutheran, frankly) ideas about sin and repentance and sanctification is not letting God be God. It's trying to dictate to God how God should extend God's grace to you.


Did it ever occur to you that God's healing/reconciling work in your life might be through the agency of an organization like Overeaters Anonymous and your healthcare providers and other caring people in your life who are willing to walk with you through what is going to be an extended journey into developing a new relationship with food? And that your apparent refusal to take these things seriously because they're not "spiritual" enough (if I catch your drift) or immediate enough is, in effect, refusing to let God do God's thing?


I would ask you to copy this post, and some of the other responses you've gotten here, and give them to your pastor. I can't imagine a Lutheran pastor not balancing the observation that gluttony is not God's loving intention for our lives (no news there) with the assurance of God's love and forgiveness, and some practical counseling for getting some community support in your lifestyle modification.  Tell him that a nosy and often bossy commissioned lay minister in the ELCA is interested in his response.


I'll tell you something else. I have a number of Eastern Orthodox friends. They have a very rigorous spiritual lifestyle that involves regular confession and spiritual direction with their priest. They take sin and amendment of life very seriously. They also take food very seriously; their cycle of fasting and feasting is intended, among other things, to help them learn self-discipline and self-denial. And I am telling you that if you spoke with them or with their priests, they would tell you the same thing the others here and I am telling you about God's forgiveness and about getting off this self-damnation kick, and instead finding some practical help -- from your doctor, from a support group, from an accountability partner -- in managing your overeating. Seriously.


 Finally, I'm going to share with you something one of my pastor friends told me when I mentioned this topic thread. He directed me to the sixth chapter of John, where Jesus talks about not losing one of the sheep that the Father has entrusted to him. That is  YOU Jesus is talking about. Jesus is not about to let you go, no matter what you think. He also talked about the 8th chapter of Romans, where Paul asks that famous rhetorical question, "What can separate us from the love of God?" Not candy bars. Not extra portions.


You know that overeating has negative consequences to your physical and emotional and spiritual health. You understand that. You are obviously distressed by that. You want to go in a different direction. God understands your temptation. God understands your distress. God forgives you -- in fact, HAS forgiven you already. I believe that God is, through the folks here, nudging you into a healthier direction, with support from other people. This is not bad news -- it's GOOD NEWS.  This cycle of acknowledging our weakness and need for God's grace, our hearing God's assurance of forgiveness and our starting again in faith and gratitude is the shape of the Christian life. This is what we as Lutheran Christians do, over and over and over again.


Again -- please copy this post, and the others, and let your pastor read them. I'd be very interested in his response.


One more thing: You might want to check out the Live Well ELCA Facebook page. In the ELCA clergy and other staff who are part of the ELCA's health insurance program are being encouraged to be more proactive about their health. Even if you're not a part of that particular program, I think you'll find some of the links and conversations helpful to you in your own health management. There are LOTS of people in the same situation, all trying to get healthier...find some encouragement in that. 


 

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7 years ago  ::  May 18, 2011 - 2:25AM #28
AFskypilot
Posts: 352

Wow, leave for 10 hours and see so much activity when I return.


First, I too have my struggles with overeating.  I am about 80 lbs over my ideal weight.  And it is causing problems with my health.  I am having severe backaches. My knees cannot take it any more--I almost collapsed today when one of my knees gave out as I was doing work in one of my work stations.  So don't accuse me of not knowing what you are going through.  I may not be walking in the same stream you are, but I have my own stream.


What is sin?  It is whatever separates you from God.  I grant that.  But I also know overeating is a disease.  Certain foods have the same effect as certain drugs.  I know that because I am an addictions counselor.  I have been in the business for over 30 years. 


You say you want God to fix your sin.  Do you remember what Paul said concerning his thorn in the flesh?  He prayed three times that God would remove it, but God did not.  God eventually taught him God's power is found in Paul's weakness.


Christians are simil justus et picator.  Saints and sinners at the same time.  Saints because God has already bought us with a price.  Sinners because we still struggle with things that separate us from God.  You are a saint, not because of what you do or do not do, but because of what God has done for you.  The sinner part still wants to reject that.  As someone pointed out, read Romans eight to see how Paul struggled with that daily.  He ultimately had to let go and let God.


So, OA is not for you.  Okay, I can accept that.  There are other avenues to pursue.  I myself am in conversation with my doctor about biometric surgery.  Not sure what route I am going to take yet, but this may be the only way I am going to control my addiction/habit/disease/sin.


Some information I found useful is from Dr. Albert Ellis.  He developed a form of therapy called Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy back in the 50's.  It still has some solid points dealing with addiction.  Google REBT and Overeating and you will find tons of information that may apply to you.

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7 years ago  ::  May 18, 2011 - 9:06AM #29
arabianhorselover
Posts: 85

First of all, please go the the Setting Captives Free website to see where I am getting some of these "ideas" that you all think are so crazy.  Also go to the Weighdown Workshop website.  I realize the world has learned to look at addictions as a disease, but that is a cop-out.  And surgery should be the last possible thing to consider.


Please don't think that I am not grateful for the help you are all trying to give me, but I don't believe I am all wrong about this.  And I have read about Paul's struggles many times.  Believe me, I have searched the new testament for verses regarding overeating.  Nowhere does it say that it is OK in God's eyes.  I don't believe that God finds it acceptable for us to look at our sins as something we have no control over. and so don't have to worry about.


 

God Has Always Been With Me - Even Though I Haven't Realized It.
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7 years ago  ::  May 18, 2011 - 9:22AM #30
Concordia
Posts: 26

I don't think anyone is saying "don't worry about your sins" and that they are ok, no problem.  On the contrary, as I said before and someone else stated that you need to come to a place where you want to be helped, and that you want to get better.  Did you read Tawonda's story about God sending the helicopter, and boat to the person and they still wondered why God didn't help them?  What does that mean to you.  You have all these resources, people around you a spiritual director, and you OA among other things, and you still wonder why God isn't helping you?  Maybe you need to let go and let God.  Have you prayed about this?  That was rhetorical.  I'm sure you have prayed about it.  I guess I would end with some things take effort.  We need to want it, with all of our hearts, mind, will, emotions to want to get better.


 


Also note that Setting the Captives Free website is definitley Christian, but it is not Lutheran.  Here on this forum you are getting advice from wise laywomen, men, and Pastors who would like to be of help. 

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