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Switch to Forum Live View The Anglican Covenant
3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2011 - 10:06AM #1
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,947
As we all know, discussion has begun on the proposed Anglican Covenant. And all the Dioceses of TEC will vote on this issue within the next year or so.

So far, the only Diocese to vote has been the Diocese of Los Angeles, and they voted against the Covenant. Here's an explain of that vote by the Bishop of LA.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJXQIUjXoo4

Thoughts?
Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2011 - 10:58AM #2
Dutch777
Posts: 9,113

Bob:


Re: the Anglican Covenant --- let's have one big, final confab on this.  Then we'll call the roll and immediately proceed to a beer-'n-peanuts festival.  You know, the kind where cold German beer is served in huge steins and the peanut shells are tossed on the floor.


Then we'll call it a day and go home.


We can do this on a triannual basis with no final vote.


It's the Anglican Way.

The Path
To Moon Lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own Dharma*Path
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2011 - 11:42AM #3
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,947

Apr 16, 2011 -- 10:58AM, Dutch777 wrote:


Bob:


Re: the Anglican Covenant --- let's have one big, final confab on this.  Then we'll call the roll and immediately proceed to a beer-'n-peanuts festival.  You know, the kind where cold German beer is served in huge steins and the peanut shells are tossed on the floor.


Then we'll call it a day and go home.


We can do this on a triannual basis with no final vote.


It's the Anglican Way.





It seems that, although the final draft of the Covenant has been around for awhile, the confabing is just starting to roll. By the end of this year, a large part of TEC will be in the middle of Diocesan voting, and I think it's going to be a very raucous voting season.


And, although you and I might like to see this atrocity put to bed, I think it will be a fractious issue for a long time to come.


 

Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2011 - 12:12PM #4
Evangelos06
Posts: 93

Is  someone  by proposing an " Anglican  covenant" trying  to make   the Anglican family  look like  a  church of the reformation,  by saying you have to sign off on these beliefs ? IMHO that goes  away  from the  Anglican  model that has  worked  for  nearly 5  centuries. I see this as  something that  could split the  Anglican  communion  into fragments.  Here in Canada we have  already seen this happen, Though it had  happened   before  when the  Reformed Episcopal  church   came into being. I say lets  say  no to this  codification  attempt.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2011 - 12:30PM #5
Dutch777
Posts: 9,113

Apr 16, 2011 -- 11:42AM, RJMcElwain wrote:

Apr 16, 2011 -- 10:58AM, Dutch777 wrote:



And, although you and I might like to see this atrocity put to bed, I think it will be a fractious issue for a long time to come.




I believe you are correct; it'll be around for quite some time.


Regarding the vid, the comments of the participants were moderate and thoughtful.  Sadly, the posted comment below the vid was not.

The Path
To Moon Lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own Dharma*Path
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2011 - 12:42PM #6
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,947

Apr 16, 2011 -- 12:30PM, Dutch777 wrote:


  ....................Sadly, the posted comment below the vid was not.




True. However, we have to recognize our historical diversity, which that comment shows. The Covenant aims to do away with our degree of tolerance.

Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2011 - 1:42PM #7
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,947

Apr 16, 2011 -- 1:01PM, BritLit37 wrote:


Apr 16, 2011 -- 10:06AM, RJMcElwain wrote:

As we all know, discussion has begun on the proposed Anglican Covenant. And all the Dioceses of TEC will vote on this issue within the next year or so.

So far, the only Diocese to vote has been the Diocese of Los Angeles, and they voted against the Covenant. Here's an explain of that vote by the Bishop of LA.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJXQIUjXoo4

Thoughts?




Just one. It's my understanding that individual diocesan votes have absolutely no bearing. Has that changed?




 


To my knowledge, it has not changed. The Dioceses will each vote and, theoretically, their delegates to National Convention will convey that sentiment. I think that's the intent, but who knows how well it will work. After all, we're Episcopalians, we're not an organized religion.

Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2011 - 9:11PM #8
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,947

Apr 16, 2011 -- 7:18PM, Nino0814 wrote:


IMO it is important for the historical record for the Epsicopal Church to state what it means to be Anglican.  The bishop's statement was perfect. 


I will also enjoy a cold one, once this is "put to bed", and those who are opposed to our liberty in Christ can then do what they must and "do it quickly", so we can continue to live out our freedom in Christ.





You make a good point. In and Adult Ed. discussion at Church, I suggested that the Covenant is just a prelude to a North/South split of the Communion. Whether TEC votes for or against the Covenant, I think that's where we're headed.


As you said, I'd rather just get on with it.



Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2011 - 6:10PM #9
RJMcElwain
Posts: 2,947

Apr 17, 2011 -- 11:31AM, Nino0814 wrote:


 I am not sure what will happen or how the rest of the communion will react, but I believe we are doing what Christ called us to do in the Episcopal Church................... 


 




I agree. However, the Southern Cone seems to think otherwise. And I'm not prepared to let them dictate to us about "God's Will".


 




Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2011 - 6:24PM #10
Dutch777
Posts: 9,113

I'm not totally convinced that the "global South" Provinces will all split off.  They certainly exercise brinkmanship and much bluster, but the support they receive from the 1st. World Provinces is too attractive.  After the present generation of fire-eaters has passed, cooler heads will prevail, I'll wager.

The Path
To Moon Lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own Dharma*Path
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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