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Switch to Forum Live View The Anglican Covenant
4 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2010 - 1:03PM #1
byronearnold
Posts: 280

I see this proposed covenant as an attack upon the American and Canadian Churches specifically, and upon the sovereignty of each church in general.


noanglicancovenant.org/


What is everyone else's 2 cents about the proposed Anglican Covenant?

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4 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2010 - 1:44PM #2
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Nov 4, 2010 -- 1:03PM, byronearnold wrote:


I see this proposed covenant as an attack upon the American and Canadian Churches specifically, and upon the sovereignty of each church in general.


noanglicancovenant.org/


What is everyone else's 2 cents about the proposed Anglican Covenant?





Byron,


What should TEC do if ther greater portion of the Anglican Communion subcribes to this covenant??

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2010 - 7:05PM #3
byronearnold
Posts: 280

Nov 4, 2010 -- 1:44PM, Roodog wrote:


Nov 4, 2010 -- 1:03PM, byronearnold wrote:


I see this proposed covenant as an attack upon the American and Canadian Churches specifically, and upon the sovereignty of each church in general.


noanglicancovenant.org/


What is everyone else's 2 cents about the proposed Anglican Covenant?





Byron,


What should TEC do if ther greater portion of the Anglican Communion subcribes to this covenant??





I can't answer that without knowing what the consequences would be towards the  American and Canadian provinces for rejecting it.  Would they have the power to exclude us from the Communion, or to penalize us?  However, my initial reaction was to reject it regardless of what the other provinces do.


This is an attack upon the American and Canadian churches, and an attack upon Progressive Anglicans worldwide.  Additionally, this is an attack upon the independence of the Provinces of the Anglican Communion.  To accept this covenant is to give up our independence.  As Americans, I can't see TEC doing that.  Unlike many nations of the Communion, we fought a war for our independence from Britain.

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4 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2010 - 11:31PM #4
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Nov 4, 2010 -- 7:05PM, byronearnold wrote:


Nov 4, 2010 -- 1:44PM, Roodog wrote:


Nov 4, 2010 -- 1:03PM, byronearnold wrote:


I see this proposed covenant as an attack upon the American and Canadian Churches specifically, and upon the sovereignty of each church in general.


noanglicancovenant.org/


What is everyone else's 2 cents about the proposed Anglican Covenant?





Byron,


What should TEC do if ther greater portion of the Anglican Communion subcribes to this covenant??





I can't answer that without knowing what the consequences would be towards the  American and Canadian provinces for rejecting it.  Would they have the power to exclude us from the Communion, or to penalize us?  However, my initial reaction was to reject it regardless of what the other provinces do.


This is an attack upon the American and Canadian churches, and an attack upon Progressive Anglicans worldwide.  Additionally, this is an attack upon the independence of the Provinces of the Anglican Communion.  To accept this covenant is to give up our independence.  As Americans, I can't see TEC doing that.  Unlike many nations of the Communion, we fought a war for our independence from Britain.





Byron,


I am going to ask you what I had asked Dutch in the other forum:


Do you see the Third World Anglican Church(Africa and South America) behind this Covenant?


If so, what do you think they are trying to force TEC to do?

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2010 - 12:14AM #5
byronearnold
Posts: 280

Nov 4, 2010 -- 11:31PM, Roodog wrote:


Nov 4, 2010 -- 7:05PM, byronearnold wrote:


Nov 4, 2010 -- 1:44PM, Roodog wrote:


Nov 4, 2010 -- 1:03PM, byronearnold wrote:


I see this proposed covenant as an attack upon the American and Canadian Churches specifically, and upon the sovereignty of each church in general.


noanglicancovenant.org/


What is everyone else's 2 cents about the proposed Anglican Covenant?





Byron,


What should TEC do if ther greater portion of the Anglican Communion subcribes to this covenant??





I can't answer that without knowing what the consequences would be towards the  American and Canadian provinces for rejecting it.  Would they have the power to exclude us from the Communion, or to penalize us?  However, my initial reaction was to reject it regardless of what the other provinces do.


This is an attack upon the American and Canadian churches, and an attack upon Progressive Anglicans worldwide.  Additionally, this is an attack upon the independence of the Provinces of the Anglican Communion.  To accept this covenant is to give up our independence.  As Americans, I can't see TEC doing that.  Unlike many nations of the Communion, we fought a war for our independence from Britain.





Byron,


I am going to ask you what I had asked Dutch in the other forum:


Do you see the Third World Anglican Church(Africa and South America) behind this Covenant?


If so, what do you think they are trying to force TEC to do?




Yes I do see their hand in it, and I think what they are trying to do is force the more Progressive churches to agree with their old fashioned Conservative values.  The whole point is to discourage change.  Pretty much saying, "No Anglican province can change their doctrine or practices unless every other province in the Communion agrees."


The Anglican Communion is just that, a communion of churches that are united in their common heritage but where no Province has any authority over any other province.  Each primate (archbishop, presiding bishop, primus, primate, etc.) has authority over their Province and no other.  This covenant is trying to fundamentally alter the Communion into a hierarchy similar to the Roman Catholic Church.  If Anglicans had wanted a centralized body to define the doctrines and practices of the Church, we never would have broke ties with the pope.

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4 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2010 - 12:27AM #6
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Nov 5, 2010 -- 12:14AM, byronearnold wrote:


Nov 4, 2010 -- 11:31PM, Roodog wrote:


Nov 4, 2010 -- 7:05PM, byronearnold wrote:


Nov 4, 2010 -- 1:44PM, Roodog wrote:


Nov 4, 2010 -- 1:03PM, byronearnold wrote:


I see this proposed covenant as an attack upon the American and Canadian Churches specifically, and upon the sovereignty of each church in general.


noanglicancovenant.org/


What is everyone else's 2 cents about the proposed Anglican Covenant?





Byron,


What should TEC do if ther greater portion of the Anglican Communion subcribes to this covenant??





I can't answer that without knowing what the consequences would be towards the  American and Canadian provinces for rejecting it.  Would they have the power to exclude us from the Communion, or to penalize us?  However, my initial reaction was to reject it regardless of what the other provinces do.


This is an attack upon the American and Canadian churches, and an attack upon Progressive Anglicans worldwide.  Additionally, this is an attack upon the independence of the Provinces of the Anglican Communion.  To accept this covenant is to give up our independence.  As Americans, I can't see TEC doing that.  Unlike many nations of the Communion, we fought a war for our independence from Britain.





Byron,


I am going to ask you what I had asked Dutch in the other forum:


Do you see the Third World Anglican Church(Africa and South America) behind this Covenant?


If so, what do you think they are trying to force TEC to do?




Yes I do see their hand in it, and I think what they are trying to do is force the more Progressive churches to agree with their old fashioned Conservative values.  The whole point is to discourage change.  Pretty much saying, "No Anglican province can change their doctrine or practices unless every other province in the Communion agrees."


The Anglican Communion is just that, a communion of churches that are united in their common heritage but where no Province has any authority over any other province.  Each primate (archbishop, presiding bishop, primus, primate, etc.) has authority over their Province and no other.  This covenant is trying to fundamentally alter the Communion into a hierarchy similar to the Roman Catholic Church.  If Anglicans had wanted a centralized body to define the doctrines and practices of the Church, we never would have broke ties with the pope.





Byron,


Could it be a Traditionalist ploy to force TEC completely out of the Anglican Communion and replace TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada with the Traditional Anglican Church they are backing up as the North American repersentaive to the Anglican Communion?

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2010 - 12:34AM #7
byronearnold
Posts: 280

Nov 5, 2010 -- 12:27AM, Roodog wrote:


Byron,


Could it be a Traditionalist ploy to force TEC completely out of the Anglican Communion and replace TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada with the Traditional Anglican Church they are backing up as the North American repersentaive to the Anglican Communion?




I am sure that is part of it, but I believe that is only a part of their agenda to assert authority that they for whatever reason feel they are entitled to and "purify" the Church of those who are more Progressive.

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4 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2010 - 4:16PM #8
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Nov 5, 2010 -- 12:34AM, byronearnold wrote:


Nov 5, 2010 -- 12:27AM, Roodog wrote:


Byron,


Could it be a Traditionalist ploy to force TEC completely out of the Anglican Communion and replace TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada with the Traditional Anglican Church they are backing up as the North American repersentaive to the Anglican Communion?




I am sure that is part of it, but I believe that is only a part of their agenda to assert authority that they for whatever reason feel they are entitled to and "purify" the Church of those who are more Progressive.





I have actually read the Covenant and downloaded it.


Had it been adopted 30 years ago, chances are I would have remained in TEC.


TEC was also more conservative then, the chances of adopting it would have been greater then.


My current objections to this covenant is not based on my TEC background but on my Baptist beliefs on the sacraments and church polity.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2010 - 7:37PM #9
byronearnold
Posts: 280

Nov 5, 2010 -- 4:16PM, Roodog wrote:


I have actually read the Covenant and downloaded it.


Had it been adopted 30 years ago, chances are I would have remained in TEC.


TEC was also more conservative then, the chances of adopting it would have been greater then.


My current objections to this covenant is not based on my TEC background but on my Baptist beliefs on the sacraments and church polity.





My objections to it are based upon the belief that foreign interference within the internal affairs of one of the autonomous Anglican Provinces is wrong and needs to be stopped.

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4 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2010 - 9:07PM #10
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Nov 5, 2010 -- 7:37PM, byronearnold wrote:


Nov 5, 2010 -- 4:16PM, Roodog wrote:


I have actually read the Covenant and downloaded it.


Had it been adopted 30 years ago, chances are I would have remained in TEC.


TEC was also more conservative then, the chances of adopting it would have been greater then.


My current objections to this covenant is not based on my TEC background but on my Baptist beliefs on the sacraments and church polity.





My objections to it are based upon the belief that foreign interference within the internal affairs of one of the autonomous Anglican Provinces is wrong and needs to be stopped.





That would not happen unless TEC & ACC ratified the Covenant.


You had better get ready for a breach of fellowship  with your fellow Anglicans. This will hurt you more than the customary schisms in the the Baptist Church will hurt us. It seems that the Baptist Church reproduces by fission like protozoa.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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