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Switch to Forum Live View Question: Can a Christian lose their salvation?
8 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2010 - 10:52AM #1
SacredFly
Posts: 14

Hey!


Can a Christian lose their salvation? What does the Roman Catholic Church teach on this topic? Please explain. 


Thanks!


 

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8 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2010 - 8:05AM #2
Mysty101
Posts: 2,025

Hi,


Since salvation is a gift, it cannot be lost, but it can be rejected.


We cannot be saved, if we don't want salvation.  This is true for all--christian and non-christian.  In the case of a non-christian, a desire for salvation would be shown by  loving and living a moral life.


Pride is named the most deadly of the capital sins---it was the cause of the fall of Lucifer, and his followers.  All sin comes from pride---"No one is going to tell ME what to do or not do."


Scripture says sins against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven.  This is difficult for me to understand, but it may be the sin of dispair.  This too is a sin which comes from pride---a person is making their actions too important, if they believe that God won't forgive them. 


Any other thoughts?


SuZ

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8 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2010 - 8:50AM #3
belleo
Posts: 2,887

Aug 31, 2010 -- 8:05AM, Mysty101 wrote:


Hi,


Since salvation is a gift, it cannot be lost, but it can be rejected.


We cannot be saved, if we don't want salvation.  This is true for all--christian and non-christian.  In the case of a non-christian, a desire for salvation would be shown by  loving and living a moral life.


Pride is named the most deadly of the capital sins---it was the cause of the fall of Lucifer, and his followers.  All sin comes from pride---"No one is going to tell ME what to do or not do."


Scripture says sins against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven.  This is difficult for me to understand, but it may be the sin of dispair.  This too is a sin which comes from pride---a person is making their actions too important, if they believe that God won't forgive them. 


Any other thoughts?


SuZ





Sin against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven .  That means to a priest theologian that teaches, when a man /woman knows they have sinned and in pride refuge to repent this type of person will not be saved . That is the sin against the Holy Spirit who guides us always .  Marie

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8 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2010 - 9:06AM #4
Jumrad
Posts: 8

"The  root of the error that there were three. First, pride. That's what  causes the devil to experience what he experienced. Second, greed, and  that's what Adam out of Paradise. Third, malice, and that's what makes  one of the sons of Adam killed his brother. So whoever  took refuge from the ugliness of the three roots of the error, in fact  he has protected himself with the truth. Because of disbelief that comes  from pride. Because of disobedience was the source of greed. Who's  wrong that the source of envy. " (Ibn Qoyyim)

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8 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2010 - 9:09AM #5
Jumrad
Posts: 8

"The  root of the error that there were three. First, pride. That's what  causes the devil to experience what he experienced. Second, greed, and  that's what Adam out of Paradise. Third, malice, and that's what makes  one of the sons of Adam killed his brother. So whoever  took refuge from the ugliness of the three roots of the error, in fact  he has protected himself with the truth. Because of disbelief that comes  from pride. Because of disobedience was the source of greed. Who's  wrong that the source of envy. " (Ibn Qoyyim)

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8 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2010 - 2:01PM #6
Mysty101
Posts: 2,025

Hi again,


I checked the Usccb site for bible & commentary---


Mark3:  29 But whoever blasphemes against the holy Spirit 11 will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an everlasting sin."


Here's the commentary-[29] Whoever blasphemes against the holy Spirit: this sin is called an everlasting sin because it attributes to Satan, who is the power of evil, what is actually the work of the holy Spirit, namely, victory over the demons.


commentary on (Matthew 12:31)


22 [31] Blasphemy against the Spirit: the sin of attributing to Satan (Matthew 12:24) what is the work of the Spirit of God (Matthew 12:28).


(Matthew 12:24)
 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man drives out demons only by the power of Beelzebul, the prince of demons."

SuZ

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8 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2010 - 8:46PM #7
belleo
Posts: 2,887
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Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, then, is the sin committed by the person who claims to have a ‘right’ to persist in evil- in any sin at all – and who thus rejects redemption. One closes oneself up in sin, thus mak­ing impossible one’s conversion, and consequently the remission of sins, which one considers not essential or not important for one’s life 
 
Father Francis Fernandez



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8 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2010 - 10:19PM #8
SacredFly
Posts: 14

Thanks for all the answers, folks. But it seems that the answers have taken off on their own direction, away from the original question. What I've wanted to find out about was the Roman Catholic teaching on the nature of salvation and whether one could "lose" their salvation by unrepentant sin? I would really appreciate answers on this question also. Thanks!


Sacredfly

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8 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2010 - 8:46AM #9
belleo
Posts: 2,887


IV. Some Examples of Justification as Ongoing (not a one-time event)From CCC


2 Cor 4:16 -- though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed "every day." This not only proves that justification is internal (not legal and external), but that it is also ongoing (it's not a one-time event of accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior). Our inner nature is being renewed every day as we persevere in faith, hope and love.


John 3:16 -- justification is ongoing, not a one-time event. God so loved (past) the world, that He gave (past) His only Son, that whoever believes (ongoing) in Him may have eternal life. The word "believes" is "pisteuo" in Greek which necessarily includes obedience throughout one's life. This is proved by 1 Peter 2:7-8 which also uses "pisteuo" (to obey) and "apitheo" (to disobey). The same word "pisteuo" is used in many other verses about "believing in Christ" such as John 3:36; 5:24; Rom 4:24; 10:9-10; cf. Rom 1:5,16; 6:17; 16:26; 1 John 5:13 (often used by Protestants to support their "faith alone" theology). To "believe" means to "obey" Jesus as Lord throughout one's life; it is not a one-time acceptance of Jesus as Savior.


Heb 5:9 -- Paul also confirms this by writing that Jesus became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him. Here are some examples of justification as an on-going process, and not a one-time event:


Gen 12:1-4 -- Abram is justified here, as God promises to make his name great and bless the families of the earth through his seed. Abram is justified by his faith in God. Heb 11:8-10 confirms Abraham's justification occurred here, before Gen. 15:6 (later) by referring to Gen 12, not Gen 15. Abraham's justification increased over time because justification is not a one-time event, but an ongoing process of growing in holiness.


Gen 14:19, 22-23 -- Abram is also justified here, by being blessed by the priest-king Melchizedek. Melchizedek calls Abram blessed and Abram gives him a tenth of everything.


Gen 15:6 -- Abram is further justified here, as God promises him that his descendants will be as numerous as the stars. Because the Scripture says, "He believed the Lord, and He reckoned it to him as righteousness," Protestants often say this was Abram's initial justification, and cite Rom 4:2 to prove Abram was justified by his faith. Yes, it is true Abram was justified by his faith, but he was justified 25 years earlier in Gen. 12:1-4, as Heb. 11:8-10 proves.


Gen 22:1-18 -- Abraham is further justified here, this time by works, when he offered his son Isaac as a sacrifice to God. James 2:21 proves this as James writes, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?" James then confirms this by writing, "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness" (James 2:23). These verses prove that justification before God is an on-going process, not a one-time event of accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior, and is accomplished by faith and works.


1 Sam 13:14 -- David is justified here, as God describes him as "a man after his own heart." No one in Scripture is described like this. Acts 13:22 confirms David's justification before God.


1 Sam 16:13 -- David is also justified here. "The Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon David from that day forward."


1 Sam 17:37-54 -- David is further justified here, as he responds to God's grace and God delivers him from the hand of Goliath the Philistine.


2 Sam 6:9,14 -- David is further justified here, as he expresses a fear for the Lord in the presence of His ark, and dances before the ark of the Lord with all his might.


2 Sam 12:7-15 -- however, after David's on-going justification before God, David falls out of justification by committing adultery with Bathsheba and slaying Uriah the Hittite. David still had faith in God, but he lost his justification because of his evil works.


Psalm 32:1-2; Rom 4:7-8; cf. 51:2,7-10,17 -- David repents of his sin and writes these beautiful psalms about God's mercy and forgiveness. Of himself, he writes, "Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered up." David is re-justified before God. This proves that we can be justified before God, then lose our justification, and then be re-justified through repentance and reconciliation with God.


Matt 16:18-19 -- Jesus blesses Simon for receiving a Revelation from God, changes his name to Peter, and gives him the keys to the kingdom of heaven. In John 6:68-69, Peter, justified before God, declares that Jesus has the words of eternal life. In Luke 22:31-32, Jesus prays for Peter that his faith may not fail and charges him to strengthen the rest of the apostles. In these and many other examples, Peter is justified before God.


Matt 26:75; Mark 14:72; John 18:17, 25-27 -- Peter denies he knows Jesus and loses his justification before God.


John 21:15-17 -- Peter is re-justified before God after he negates his three-fold denial of Jesus with a three-fold confirmation of his love for him. Jesus then charges Peter to feed the Lord's sheep. Peter was justified, loses his justification, and regains it again through repentance and love.


Luke 15:24,32 -- the prodigal son was dead, and now is alive again; he was lost and now is found. The prodigal son regained his father's favor through repentance (v. 18-19,21). When we ask our Father for forgiveness, we too will regain His favor and be justified.


Acts 9:1-17 -- Protestants would say that Paul is instantly justified here, when he encounters Christ, obeys His command to enter the city, and is moved by the Holy Spirit. They would say that Paul's sins are now covered up and Christ's righteousness is imputed to him.


Acts 9:18; 22:16 -- then why does Ananias command St. Paul (who was directly chosen by Christ) to stand up and be baptized and "wash away his sins?" Because justification, as the Church has taught for 2,000 years, is ongoing. It is not a one-time event of accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. Justification is freely given by God through faith, hope, love and the sacraments of the Church (here, Baptism).


Rev 22:11-22 -- he who is righteous [justified], let him be righteous [justified] still [more]; he who is holy, let him be holy still....and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

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8 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2010 - 10:03AM #10
SacredFly
Posts: 14

Just me, 


Extreme thanks!


Sacredfly

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