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8 years ago  ::  Aug 19, 2010 - 12:27AM #31
Posts: 226

Aug 18, 2010 -- 3:25PM, MMCSFOX wrote:

WWA, As I look over your response to this post I simply wonder why we spend so much time responding to someone who has not researched or looked into the subject they bring forward themselves, but has simply, very simply already put on an I am better and smarter than you hateful people attitude. As I see so many …  copy and paste anti-LDS diatribes as if it was their own idea and thought. Why do we spend effort with them instead of just ignore them?

Jesse F.


Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery, Today is a gift. That's why it is called the present.

Well Jesse,while I understand your point just let me state from experiance that a good reason to address these kinds of posts is while the targeted poster may be a lost cause there are always people in the 'peanut gallery' reading these posts and assessing the answers.I read this and the old forum for years and never made a post until I actually joined the church.Casual 'internet investigators' are bombarded with anti-lds info,some of it total bs,some of it totally distorted.........some of it true and in need of clarification or context.

  I had long felt 'drawn' to the church,even though I had only ever known one active member many years ago.I wasn't even religious.When I moved to Wyoming I found a Book of Mormon in a place  I rented.I read it but still didnt visit the local ward.I felt drawn to and was inspired the times I visited the Willie Handcart Site.....I still didn't visit a ward.During my year and a half as an over the road truck driver I felt moved when I had occassion to go by the 'Hill Cumorah' on my way to get and deliver a load of apple  juice in upstate NewYork....I still didn't visit a ward.I got a construction job and spent three months at the wash dc temple grounds working on the visitor center expansion,the jobsite superindendent was an old friend who had joined the church,[and Really turned his life around]...while impressed I still didn't visit a ward.

I then learned how to turn on a computer.I got a lot of conflicting information.I felt a lot of conflicts based on the things I read.I started reading discussion forums like this and found most of the mormon posters to be more rational than the mormon bashers.I learned that various mormons had different points of view on many things just like other groups.They weren't all 'group think zombies'.Many seemed to have a good sense of humor.They mostly seemed a lot more normal than me.LaughingI finally visited a ward...ive been there almost every sunday since.I blame Bill a lot for this......even if he does sleep in 3 sundays a month.The net is an opportunity........too much of it on this site is wasted arguing about politics which can better be done on another forum.I personally am thrilled to see some people discussing things involving the church rather than just bashing/defending bush/obama/palin/pelosi/reid/romney etc.  ad infinitum.Many members gave very good posts on this thread....our thoughts about even 'cut and paste diatribes' can have a positive effect on the larger audience reading the threads,even in cases were the target is unmovable from their positions.Smile

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8 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2010 - 9:06PM #32
Posts: 6,091

Well Violets has not returned so I’ll assume she really wasn’t interested in my answer.


Bill; WWA was on a roll. WWA, you can be "long-winded" any time you like.


Thank you


Imbob; …..the targeted poster may be a lost cause there are always people in the 'peanut gallery' reading these posts and assessing the answers…


Amen to that, I’ve had over 1,500 peek in on the Book of Mormon read along. I haven’t posted there for awhile cause of a busy summer but people keep looking at it.

Wise men still seek him.
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8 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2010 - 5:37PM #33
Posts: 36

Aug 22, 2010 -- 5:37PM, mercedes62 wrote:

None of this matters anyway.

Would if it really was that way?

Would if it really wasn't?

The facts that go on to matter are actions. Words do often produce actions, good or bad.

If a person truly CARES about how certain religions in the past have mistreated, oppressed, enslaved, and murdered blacks and then wants to go about and bring those religions down and expose them, they would see that Mormons are not even going to be on the list. 

If words like these caused us Mormons to mistreat blacks, then we would certainly not belong to the God we claim to belong to. The truth is that Mormons never enslaved blacks, we voted as a block to abolish slavery, never burned crosses of our Jesus on their lawns, never hunted them down and hung them, did not bring ship loads of them from Africa, did not bring them to Utah to dig all the irrigation ditches, and blacks didn't pick our cotton. We worked our own darn farms. From the beginning of Mormonism until now, we have never been encouraged to harm anyone.

In fact, we suffered persecutions ourselves for standing our ground on the slavery issue. The church has also used our money to help the black people in this country and in others who were suffering for one reason or another. I was pretty sure you weren't going to mention that so I thought that I would. Why would we want to help if we were racist? If we thought we were so great and them so low, we might also believe that they deserved what they were getting in way of floods, famine, and earthquakes. This is not the case.

The situation could be turned on our Lord too. Gentiles were not even allowed the ordinance of baptism for a long time. Reasons? Did this mean that Christians were to mistreat them? What was the reason for this? Why would Jesus exclude me from this ordinance had I lived in His day? Should I be offended at the rule? He never hurt me, I would have to admit to that, but my hurt feelings of not being "good enough" or not being of "chosen" race, how would I feel?  I believe that I would have taken it straight to God and asked Him if I should be offended or if this was something I would just need to accept. I expect I would have been the same person that I am now and I would have had a personal relationship with God and I believe I would have asked who Jesus was and when I had it confirmed to me by the Spirit that he was the Christ, then the baptism issue would be no big deal to me. If we Mormons are condemned for the priesthood issue, then we take that condemnation right along with Christ on the baptism issue.

You are seriously choking on gnats and swallowing camels if you are thinking that what you have found in the Mormon closet compares even minutely to what other religions in this country have in their closet. Mormons are a lot easier to pin down because each ward is not independent. If you care so much about the black race, why don't you use your time actually DOING something to improve their state? I'm sure that the fact is that you don't care about them and have never given much help or charity to them, you only want to hate Mormons and convince others to and you think that you have found some great sin to accuse us of.

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