| 3 years ago :: Jun 25, 2010 - 11:16AM #1 | |
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| 3 years ago :: Jun 26, 2010 - 10:09AM #2 | |
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The link is broken. |
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| 3 years ago :: Jun 28, 2010 - 9:49AM #3 | |
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| 3 years ago :: Jun 28, 2010 - 11:20AM #4 | |
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My impression? He's full of it. I'm sick and tired of people like him trying to use clever arguments from history in order to discredit the OCA and to throw a monkey wrench into a future (hopefully soon) American Church. The EP has been reduced to little more than a title head and his reps are busy trying to remake him into some sort of Greek pontiff. I'm surprised St Vlads gave this character an opportunity to stir things up there. |
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| 3 years ago :: Jun 28, 2010 - 4:43PM #5 | |
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i'm surprised also. He goes to an OCA seminary to only say that the OCA is not canonical. And how he discredits "ethnic churches" which do turn away potential converts. Obviously the man has never toured the USA nor spoken with any converts who have personally witnessed such incidents. |
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| 3 years ago :: Jul 04, 2010 - 9:35AM #6 | |
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Hello Boyz and Girlz, Yeah I see yer point about da etnic parrishes and da way dey sumtimes treat convoitz. But in all fairness, sum convoitz can be tiresome (present company excepted). Also, dey treat odder etnicities da same way. Jest try to ta break into a Greek parrish if yer a Bulgarian. Itz da same t'ing. I tink ole da EP rep iz right in most of da tingz dat he writes here. Da problem iz dat in spite of da Rum/Greek distinction, most of deeze parrishes are bottom up constructionz. Dat iz sum Greeks (Bulgarians, Soibianz, whatever, cept mebbe da Rooshianz were started by sum emigrants, who den petitioned to da old country fer some clergy ta soive da community. So dem choiches was mostly about preserving dere etnic identity while dey adjusted to da new country. I tink dat he also understates da ecumenical nature of da EP in recent history. When confronted wit da rise of German-style Romantic nationalism in da 19th Century, da EP did indeed try to impose a rigorous "Hellenism" upon itz Slavic and Romanian flocks. Replacing native speaking clergy wit "loyal" Greco-phone ones. Destroying slavonic books and monastic libraries. Dis of course only aggravated da centrepetal tendencies of da various nationalist movements in da non-Greco-phone areas of da Ep's jurisdiction. Even tho' dis wasn't done ta create a Greek nationalist choich, it wuz perceived as such by da non-Greeks who suffered through it. So dey sought for and ultimately received autocephaly dat eventually led to da restoration of da extinct medieval Patriarchates of Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria. (Well Bulgaria's dates from late antiquity, but you get da idea). I guess dat it wuz nice dat all dese rump states got a shiny new patriarch wit all da bellz and whistles, but as the EP rep with da hopelessly long Greek name writes, da whole exercise in national ecclesiastical narcissism wuz ultimately pointless! Den dere iz of course da story of da problematic relationship of da EP wit da Greek nationalist community in da newly created Greek Kingdom as well as da ambivalent bipolar nature of da modern Greek ethnic identity crisis, which is situated in da no mans land of "am I Hellene or am I Byzantine (Romaoi)." A perfect example of dis confusion iz da woid for da ultimate in Greek-ness: Romiosini. If da Greeks would simply be happy wit bein' Greeks and give up dere nationalist fantasies of being either direct descendents of the Byzantines or the Ancient Helenes den dey and da rest of us would be happier and maybe more amenable to bein jes Orthodox Christians. Don't get me started on da Rooshianz... dere even woise! Da rest of us etniks don't matter, cuz we ain't large enough and are already well on da way to loosing out etnicity, because of convoit dilution. (Admittedly da dilution slowed down a bit since the collapse of the Soviet Union and with the resulting new increase in immigration from da old country, but the process continues.) So much fer da EP and itz slightly shaky claim to ecumenicity. Da fact iz, dat ole Bart iz Greek in da same way dat George Stephanopoulous iz. He iz hyphenated. Where George iz Greek-American or some such grammatical permutation, Bart iz Greek-Turanian. He iz a Toikish citizen, he speakz toikish and he soived in da Toikish Army, like all good male citizens of da Secular Republic of Toikey. That said, I believe he iz sincere in his effortz ta center da EP back in itz traditional role as a multi-ethic community. How da hell else iz da EP gonna survive? Da problem ain't him. Honestly I don't unnerstand all da hostility dat da EP stirs up in you guyz. Da problem ain't him. Da problem iz us... Da narrow minded parochial mindset of da various Orthodox stakeholders livin' in dis here country. Greeks, Bulgarianz, Russianz and yes, fess up now - even you Convoitz! Ole Bart iz absolutely right da answer ain't in da establishment of just anodder "etnic" (read: American) choich. Dat iz and has been since da nineteenth century, da way backwardz, not forwardz. So if ya can't get over yer Patriarch envy, den go out and get one. Bart is avaliable and only semi-employed and if he keeps on annoying da semi-islamist government of Recip Erdogan, he'll be out of home soon too! Jimmy Paffhausen and da gang at OCA can lead dat flock into the waitin' arms of da EP jest as assuredly as all doze conservative Episcopalians are leading dere flocks to da African Anglican Church. (and cut pretty good merger dealz too) Patriarchs are like avocados, itz better ta buy one den ta try an grow one yerself! Yeah sure da Greek Americans are unsufferable and dey breed like ratzs, but eventually you convoitz are gonna win das kultur kampf! Da Rooshianz (OCA-style) will either join up or sit in da corner an pout (ROCOR-style). So take yer shoes off. Get a massage, slice off a a piece of cheeze ta go wit dat whine. Oh boo hoo. Ya t'ink ya got it rough? Try bein' da only atheist in a supposed "etnik" choich (etnik in name only) full of Amish-dressing convoitz, wit a Russsophile Irish-American priest who talks like a soifer-dude and babbles about toll-houses and Elder Ephraim every chance he getz! Itz enough ta make me wanta move ta Canada an live close to Uncle Lev Puhalo! At least him, I can unnerstand. Now Jimbo. I did pray fer ya, for all da good it did. I mean da prayer wuz heartfelt, but I still t'ink dat nobody wuz home ta receive it. So wassup bro! Iz ya convoit, a revoit or a prevoit? Maybe yer like me... still confused???
Hugs and kisses Razzle Dazzle
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| 3 years ago :: Jul 06, 2010 - 1:59PM #7 | |
Amen, razz. Preach it, brother! (The Hierarchs I've met (obviously not gone out and had a beer with 'em, but at least been introduced to) have all impressed me as being a pretty intelligent, honest, dedicated and faithful bunch, including His All-Holiness. They're not perfect and some may have their egos and personal agendas, but by and large, they are a pretty impressive group, and I'm proud to be a part of it.)
“The Law of the Church is to give oneself to what is given not to seek one’s own.” Fr. Alexander Schmemann
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| 3 years ago :: Jul 06, 2010 - 9:30PM #8 | |
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There are definitely egos involved amongst this group. And we've seen even in the past few years that they are capable of corruption and attempts at intimidating those who "blow the proverbial whistle" (i.e. Herman and Philip's behavior with their ardioceses). And not that long ago there was the battle of egos between Bart and Alexius. And who can forget Ligonier with its attempts at bringing about unity amongst the various Orthodox churches here in NA. It wasn't long before Bart reined in of Abp Iakovos by forcing his retirement, afraid no doubt that SCOBA would bring about a unity that might lead to a loss of his control (and income?).
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| 3 years ago :: Jul 07, 2010 - 11:45AM #9 | |
Unfortunately there are always egos involved in any human endeavor. It may shock you to learn that I am not entirely free of ego myself!
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| 3 years ago :: Jul 07, 2010 - 3:50PM #10 | |
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Hey guys. Remember I do satire. Anything I write that resembles real persons or situations is purely coincidental! But if I was going to venture a serious opinion, I would have to agree with Ms. Katherine.
Mihailo |
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