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4 years ago  ::  May 13, 2010 - 12:00PM #1
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,367

I was just thinking about this so i thought i would ask


 


Considering the changes the ELCA has done of late  (good changes in my opinion) would you call them an Emerging Church or not ,Do you think they have turned into one?

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4 years ago  ::  May 13, 2010 - 10:43PM #2
WannabeTheo
Posts: 400

Your question sent me on an on-line search to find out more about the 'emerging church'.  The general impression I get is that it is Evangelical churches finding mainline liberalism and post-modernism.  And I use 'Evangelical' not in the general sense but in the specifically American sense of conservative free churches that identify as Evangelical.


Given that the ELCA is already a liberal mainline protestant church, and one not generally identified as Evangelical, despite the 'E' in our name, I don't think we qualify as part of the emerging church movement.  There may be some points of commonality though, since post-modernism does seem to be making inroads in the ELCA, but I don't think it has anything to do with the recent assembly decisions.

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4 years ago  ::  May 14, 2010 - 1:03AM #3
R._c._lee
Posts: 24

The Emergent Church appears to be a liberal movement that has sparks in the Episcopal, Presbyterian, UCC churches, among others.


There are also folks in the Southern Baptist Convention who are trying to figure out what to do in a "post Evangelical" (whatever that means) world.


ELCA Lutherans may not have trouble with emergent church liberalism but might be bothered by its emphasis on works. 


"The Great Emergence: How Christianity Is Changing and Why" by Phyllis Tickle is a very good introduction.


But the theology in her book seems somewhat confused. One minute it is off the charts in its radical view of established Christian doctrine, and in the next it is obsessed with ritual to the point that a Catholic might cry uncle.


One local standard brand church is advertising that it is welcoming folks who believe in the emergent church and/or the end of the world in 2012.


Be sure to check the battery on your Mayan calendar watch.


Might be a little trendy for Lutherans.


 

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4 years ago  ::  May 15, 2010 - 6:26PM #4
tawonda
Posts: 4,367

I don't think that "Emergent" is necessarily either theologically nor politically liberal. As a matter of fact, a friend of mine dismissed them as "fundamentalists with incense and sofas"; and there's a certain breed of goateed, cabana-shirt-clad, tattooed Southern-Baptisty folks who've tried to ride the Emergent bandwagon stylewise even though their theology is right out of Jerry Falwell's "Old Time Gospel Hour."  If you're a woman in the Emergent movement who is not in a mainline denomination, good luck being taken seriously in a church leadership role -- or even being admitted into that boys' club at all; what I've heard and seen, anyway, from quick readings through Emergent blogs and such.


I also don't think there's any great Emergent wave in The Episcopal Church.  If anything TEC and other liturgical traditions are where the non-denom/"free" Emergent types go mining for ritual and spiritual practice.


RC Lee, perhaps you're not as acquainted with the Emergent movement as you think you are?

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4 years ago  ::  May 15, 2010 - 8:56PM #5
WannabeTheo
Posts: 400

May 14, 2010 -- 1:03AM, R._c._lee wrote:


One local standard brand church is advertising that it is welcoming folks who believe in the emergent church and/or the end of the world in 2012.





So does the 'standard brand' church accept those views, or was the point that they are hoping to turn people away from such beliefs/practices?

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4 years ago  ::  May 16, 2010 - 12:57AM #6
R._c._lee
Posts: 24

Tawonda,


All I know is what I read in the papers: "The Great Emergence" by Phyllis Tickle, and reading Brian D. McLaren on Huffington Post's new Religion section for Lefties. (Not that I don't like Lefties because I do.)


I do not get what some of the Southern Baptists are up to.


And I have an uneasy feeling that both emergent and post-evangelical mean whatever you want them to mean.


I said emergent seemed trendy. I didn't say it was a good thing.


From what you are saying I'm getting that it is not a good thing.


Theo, 


This is a church that is trying to attract new members in the worst way i.e. doesn't seem to matter what you believe. Joining some churches is like joining the National Geographic Society. Show me the money.


 


 

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4 years ago  ::  May 16, 2010 - 8:03AM #7
tawonda
Posts: 4,367

Well, from my perspective I guess I wonder why the Emergent non-denoms don't just join a liturgical mainline church instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. And the fundamentalist Emergent wannabes are just doing what they always do -- trying to catch some trendy pop-culture wave in their desperate attempts to convert people By Any Means Necesary.


I know that Emergent folks would respond that I'm not "getting" them -- that they're about ministering to normally unchurched/marginally unchurched people in niche ways that speak to them. But I wonder how much of that actually happens.

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4 years ago  ::  May 16, 2010 - 9:06AM #8
WannabeTheo
Posts: 400

May 16, 2010 -- 8:03AM, tawonda wrote:


Well, from my perspective I guess I wonder why the Emergent non-denoms don't just join a liturgical mainline church instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.





Bingo!  In my very brief online research, that was the exact same question I kept asking.


Could it be that within non-denom, unaffiliated circles there is an (erroneous) assumption that there is no freedom of belief in denominational churches, what with our confessions and catechisms and creeds and all?  May be true of some of the more conservative branches, but not all mainline churches (ELCA, TEC, PCUSA, UCC).


I hope it's not just about the sofas!

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4 years ago  ::  May 16, 2010 - 11:13AM #9
R._c._lee
Posts: 24

Wikipedia has this definition of the emerging church movement, which seems laughable in its attempt to be all things to all people:


The emerging church (sometimes referred to as the emergent movement) is a Christian movement of the late 20th and early 21st century that crosses a number of theological boundaries: participants can be described as evangelical, post-evangelical, anabaptist, liberal, post-liberal, reformed, charismatic, neocharismatic, post-charismatic, conservative, and post-conservative.


A post-liberal, a post-conservative, and a post-evangelical walk into a coffee shop and discuss ... post-religion, post-modernism and post-politics over Post Toasties?

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