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Switch to Forum Live View This board doesn't seem too active but just wanted to say based on my study of the Disciples I...
8 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2010 - 3:45PM #1
Justly
Posts: 186

This board doesn't seem too active but just wanted to say based on my study of the Disciples I find your denomination quite amazing.  I have a Catholic background but my parents were actually married in a Christian Church many yrs ago (long story) in which DOC is rooted.  So in a way I've always had some connection to DOC I suppose.  Wink


Anyway only a simple profession for membership, "Do you believe Christ the Son of God and Savior" is so refreshing.


One Baptism...  while practicing immersion, acceptance of other forms.


Weekly Communion open to all Christians as I believe Christ taught in Jn 6:37


An open big tent but basic unity in Christ and His love.  Amen!


I kinda wish there was a DOC closer than about 20 mi from me.


One thing...  I gather you and the UCC are in communion.  But the UCC at least seems more settled on that big issue facing many mainliners today, gay ordination.  I know the national DOC is not opposed but many (most?) DOC regions are still opposed?  Is this correct?


God's blessing on all our journeys.  Peace. 


   

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8 years ago  ::  Jan 25, 2010 - 9:17AM #2
Vanessa86
Posts: 170

Welcome to our corner of B-Net! Thanks for stopping by!


I'm with you -- The closest congregation to me is maybe 30 miles away, a bit far to be practical, what with choir practice, etc.


As for gay ordination, I should let one of our clergy members address this. Off the top of my head, I have not heard we would not accept a gay minister, or ordain someone who is G/L. My congregation back in Texas is very accepting of its gay members.


But for a definitive answer, I'll defer to someone with more knowledge. Or www.disciples.org, our denomination's website, may have what you need.


 

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8 years ago  ::  Jan 25, 2010 - 9:54AM #3
mecdukebec
Posts: 16,084
I have pastored two (2) UCCs and two (2) DoCs.  Yes, we are in an ecumenical partnership, which was just a cowardly lion's way of declining actual merger, despite the fact that when the UCC moved to godawful Cleveland (And yes, I have lived in Cleveland for seven (7) years, so spare me the mock outrage about my comment.) and the DoC's having most of its major offices in Indy; not far away, at all.

So, we settled in for this merger-lite thing-y.

More realistically, it just means sharing clergy and outreach ministries (Overseas Ministries, the most aware and ecumenical of all our efforts, and the only organisation to either church that actually has folks who are aware of the world Church outside of North America). 

Practically, we have clergy who are gay, serving in the Northeast (I had a colleague who came out to his DoC ordination cte some 21 years ago; yes, I was there.), and in places such as Ohio, Metroplex Dallas-F.W., Califorinia, etc., and frankly, nobody cares.  It simply means that the clergy are effective, caring pastors and preachers, and whether they are gay or lesbian, is as pertinent as whether they have blue eyes, or brown hair.

As to the immersion debates or instrumental music, or the modernist-fundagelical controversies, those were settled in this DoC sphere, with some exceptions, because the churches of Christ and the independents left a long time ago, so those issues simply don't arouse passions, like they did, 70 or 100-plus years ago.

The DoC-UCC partnership is the future of mainline Protestant Christianity, and the rest of that sphere will resemble us in the not to distant, significantly, financially, reduced, but intensely-missional future in North America.

Welcome to the future:  We are already living it.
*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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8 years ago  ::  Jan 26, 2010 - 1:08AM #4
Justly
Posts: 186

Vanessa, thanks for your welcome!  I've corresponded with pastors of 3 local DoC churches ranging from 15 - 25 mi.  The 15 maybe not so bad but it's the one seemingly with a bit more traditional tilt in worship, music than I might like.  They use the Revised Version from the 1950s in their worship services and have a blended service singing one praise song and 2 from the hymnal, with keyboard, guitar and organ.  The further ones have both traditional organ and contemporary services with guitar, percussion, bass, sax.  One using the NRSV and the other GNT.  I actually use the GNT some myself because my eyes aren't what they used to be and I happen to have a large print version.  I was thrilled to see words of visiting the sick, helping the homelesss, prison ministries, poverty and peace issues mentioned on their websites and by the pastors themselves.


Mecdukebec, Cleveland isn't so bad!  Smile  I lived in OH many yrs. 


The pastors tell me the national assembly is not opposed to G/L ordination and if I recall I may have seen that position taken on the denomiation's website.  A pastor told me some regions approve.  Some practice don't ask, don't tell, some leave it up to the congregations, but still most regions oppose it.  The 3 congregations varied it seemed from one following the region's policy of opposition to.  Another not being hardnosed about it.  And the 3rd (surprisingly to me the one I "deem" more traditional), not having orientation a criteria for service.         

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8 years ago  ::  Jan 26, 2010 - 10:52AM #5
mecdukebec
Posts: 16,084

For UCC and DoC churches, there is always the 'congregational' solution, i.e. the ONA program through the UCC and the DoC GLAD affiliation.  Either identifies the congregation as open to all, including g/l/t persons; there's simply no way to 'disaffiliate' a congregation, by action of a Region or Conference, as we are congregational in polity.  In practical terms, in my experience, doing an ONA brings up issues in some older male clergy, who keep asking about "the gays in your church":  If they were younger, and unmarried, I might suggest some further counseling, on their part.  Times, as they say, are a-changing. 

*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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8 years ago  ::  Jan 26, 2010 - 9:16PM #6
Justly
Posts: 186

Do I have this history correct?  Stone and B Campbell were Presbyterians and A Campbell Baptist?  Or was AC Presbyterian before Baptist?


Also I know you immerse but don't require re-Baptism and accept other forms if someone has already been baptized before joining your church.  But do you accept Trinitarian baptisms only or others forms?


Thanks.

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8 years ago  ::  Jan 26, 2010 - 11:51PM #7
Campbellite
Posts: 2,068

Jan 26, 2010 -- 9:16PM, Justly wrote:


Do I have this history correct?  Stone and B Campbell were Presbyterians and A Campbell Baptist?  Or was AC Presbyterian before Baptist?


Also I know you immerse but don't require re-Baptism and accept other forms if someone has already been baptized before joining your church.  But do you accept Trinitarian baptisms only or others forms?


Thanks.




Close. Thomas (father) and Alexander Campbell (son) were both ordained in the Old Light Anti-Burgher seceeder presbyterian Church (of Scotland.) Barton Stone was ordained by the Presbyterians in North Carolina, and Walter Scott was ordained as a Presbyterian as well.


Because Alex Campbell was convinced that immersion was the preferred (but not exclusinve) mode of baptism, and because he agreed with the Baptists about congregational polity, he thought that they would be a good match. (He never desired to form a new denomination. That would have been a further rending of the Body of Christ.)


Unfortunately, while many of the outward forms were similar, out theologies never really meshed. The Baptist essentially kicked out the "Reformers" as they called Campbells crowd. Shortly after that the Stoneite "Christians" invited the Campbellite "Disciples of Christ" to talk. On January1, 1832, they decided that God had already made them one. (No official vote was ever taken.)


We are kinda fuzzy about baptism. We do not require re-baptism. (Personally, I advise against it outside extreme circumstances.) But if the candidate says that they A) don't know, or don't believe that they were baptised before, or B) utterly reject their "sprinkling" as being baptised, I might offer 'conditional' baptism. ("If you are not already, I baptise you ....")


I cannot speak for every DOC pastor, but I am strongly Trinitarian in my theology. But I also believe that God's mercy and grace (and the Holy Spirit) will make up for any deficiancy.

You are unique.
Just like everybody else.
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8 years ago  ::  Jan 31, 2010 - 4:02PM #8
Katherine
Posts: 1

hello justly, I am a member of a disciples congregation in Lexington, Ky. A number of elders are participating in a discernment process to address the question of welcoming gays/lesbians as members or leaders of the congregation. The elders are also addressing the issue of ordination of gays/lesbians. The Kentucky region has a policy prohibiting openly gay/lesbian ordination. Therefore our current policy is don't ask don't tell. Another congregation here is also addressing the issue as they have a lesbian member who has graduated from the seminary and must go to California for ordination.  The prospects for changing the region policy are not great at this time. I am hopeful that we will make some progress however.

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2010 - 1:12AM #9
Justly
Posts: 186

Jan 31, 2010 -- 4:02PM, Katherine wrote:


hello justly, I am a member of a disciples congregation in Lexington, Ky. A number of elders are participating in a discernment process to address the question of welcoming gays/lesbians as members or leaders of the congregation. The elders are also addressing the issue of ordination of gays/lesbians. The Kentucky region has a policy prohibiting openly gay/lesbian ordination. Therefore our current policy is don't ask don't tell. Another congregation here is also addressing the issue as they have a lesbian member who has graduated from the seminary and must go to California for ordination.  The prospects for changing the region policy are not great at this time. I am hopeful that we will make some progress however.




Hi Katherine, thank you for responding.  From what I've been able to learn, the FL region is opposed to G/L ordination as well.  But one pastor told me it is not a criteria for service in his church.  Another said they are not hardcore about it.  And a third said some regions ordain.  Most still do not.  A couple leave it to the congregatons.  And some have "don't ask don't tell" as at your church.  I love so much of what I have learned about DoC.  I kinda wish things were more settled on this as the UCC seems to be.  But at the same time I like things like the weekly Communion DoC has.  My local UCC only has quarterly Communion.    G/L issues are being faced by many mainline churches though.  Hopefully some progress on an eventual region wide policy can be made without splits like TEC has seen.  But you guys...   and gals Smile are doing a pretty good job of being disciples from what I can gather.  If I could get over my whole "Catholic guilt complex" Laughing and were closer to a congregation I maybe would even try a service out sometime.  God bless!

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2010 - 4:48PM #10
Campbellite
Posts: 2,068

Go to: Disciples.org and scroll down about half way to the "Congregation Finder". Enter your zip code et voilà!

You are unique.
Just like everybody else.
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