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Switch to Forum Live View Just wondering about some things.
5 years ago  ::  Dec 01, 2009 - 9:32PM #1
Questionall
Posts: 15

1)      If God supposedly does not dwell in temples, why should I go to church?


2)      If prophesy ended with Jesus, then why is Revelation in the Bible? Is that not prophesy?


3)      If Mormons are so evil, why does Utah have so much less crime than other states including my own Baptist-dominated Tennessee?


4)      Mormons accept Jesus as their personal savior, yet you think God is sending them on a one-way ticket to hell. So you’re saying that Jesus will not send everybody to heaven even if they accept him as Savior?


 


Just pondering….


 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2009 - 6:01PM #2
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

Dec 1, 2009 -- 9:32PM, Questionall wrote:


1)      If God supposedly does not dwell in temples, why should I go to church?


2)      If prophesy ended with Jesus, then why is Revelation in the Bible? Is that not prophesy?


3)      If Mormons are so evil, why does Utah have so much less crime than other states including my own Baptist-dominated Tennessee?


4)      Mormons accept Jesus as their personal savior, yet you think God is sending them on a one-way ticket to hell. So you’re saying that Jesus will not send everybody to heaven even if they accept him as Savior?


 Just pondering….



Hi questionall, Since you asked "general questions" and apparently are questioning your own belief structure, I'll try to give you some Scriptural answers for each of them.


(1)and (2)  The Creator GOD is Omnipresent. God can't be put in a box/temple for one's individual pleasure apart from everyone else. Yet, God can indwell every individual Believer at the same instant.  1Cor.6:19,(3:16) "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?   Where two or three Believers are gathered in HIS NAME HE IS with them---regardless of a "building by human hands."(Matt.18:20) However, Heb.10:25, "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."  The gifts of the Spirit is manifested through  "exhortation".  One can be strengthened by the assembling with TRUTH FILLED individuals. 


People are taught individually and in groups the Truths of HIS Scriptures/WORD. However, if one is not looking for GOD, one will see that which they are looking for to satisfy their lusts.


Revelation is an ongoing Prophecy from John's day to the creation of the New Heavens and New earth and then through Eternity. Revelations gives the periods of history that the "church"/God's people will endure as time winds down to the end of Earth's history. However., the encouragement to hold fast that which is true and overcone is a reward worth believing in-----as it is TRUE.


(3) The Mormons are no more evil that any other secular body of people------Those "professing to believe".  The State of Utah Isn't "less in crime" when one considers the "Crime" the Bible speaks about------SIN. That is an individual matter and not a "States".


(4) All who "profess"/claim to accept Jesus as Savior according to Jesus will not be in heaven/the new earth/eternal life. Matt.7:21-23, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
" Or as Jesus said, it is the "Many" who have chosen "the Broad road to destruction." That is, also,  reflected in the "choosing of one's master" and the reason for making one's "election and calling sure". OR "working out your own salvation", Phil.2:12, "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."


Therefore, "ponder" those Scriptural answers.

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2009 - 10:06PM #3
Questionall
Posts: 15

Again, though - if two or three are gathered in his name, why then a building to do this? Church, temple - no difference. Aren't we also to pray in private? What good is it for me to bow my head and pretend I'm praying when the preacher is speaking for me? He's the one actually praying, not me.


I don't question my belief that Jesus is my savior - just the earthly, man-made institutions better known as the Baptist Church, UMC, Roman Catholic, Latter-Day Saints, etc. I'm beginning to wonder if these are really needed.  After all, Shi'ites and Sunnis all pray in the same Mosques. Buddhists of different sects are often found together in the same temples. Why can we not pray in the same place. Why do some use terms for other churches like the Great Whore, the Great Apostasy? Why do Christians fight over stupid stuff like infant or adult baptism, Trinty or Godhead, real wine or grape juice, blah, blah, blah, yackety yack?


Looks like the guy downstairs keeps successfully twisting our puny little minds into pretzels. Maybe the end IS near, judging from all the stupid stuff we fuss about.


Just pondering....

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2009 - 5:08PM #4
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

Dec 2, 2009 -- 10:06PM, Questionall wrote:


Again, though - if two or three are gathered in his name, why then a building to do this? Church, temple - no difference. Aren't we also to pray in private? What good is it for me to bow my head and pretend I'm praying when the preacher is speaking for me? He's the one actually praying, not me.


I don't question my belief that Jesus is my savior - just the earthly, man-made institutions better known as the Baptist Church, UMC, Roman Catholic, Latter-Day Saints, etc. I'm beginning to wonder if these are really needed.  After all, Shi'ites and Sunnis all pray in the same Mosques. Buddhists of different sects are often found together in the same temples. Why can we not pray in the same place. Why do some use terms for other churches like the Great Whore, the Great Apostasy? Why do Christians fight over stupid stuff like infant or adult baptism, Trinty or Godhead, real wine or grape juice, blah, blah, blah, yackety yack?


Looks like the guy downstairs keeps successfully twisting our puny little minds into pretzels. Maybe the end IS near, judging from all the stupid stuff we fuss about.


Just pondering....





Questionall, The answer to the various "Why" in most cases is a effort or excuse to circumvent the plain "Thus saith the LORD.  Some are just plain arrogance and defiance, which has its roots in the first .  It all started in heaven with Lucifer's rebellion and spread to a third of the Angelic host.  We saw it in the Garden of Eden (Adam, Eve and Cain).


Before the "Fall", God walked with them in the garden-----No recorded building.  And in Isa.66:23, in the new earth,  all the redeemed will "come to worship before ME". Will that be like Those "who were called out of Egypt" assembling before the Sanctuary and the presence of the LORD GOD?. It reads that way to me.  We have "Buildings" to protect from the weather.  Not to "house GOD" Who controls the elements. "Heaven is my throne and earth is my footstool".  Isa.66:1, "Thus saith the LORD, The heaven [is] my throne, and the earth [is] my footstool: where [is] the house that ye build unto me? and where [is] the place of my rest?"


Of course, we are to pray in private, but in the assembling of ourselves, we are to corporately petition GOD to be with and guide in the exhortations as HE WILLS and for HIS purpose.  James 5:15, says,  "Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."  Acts 3:1, "Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, [being] the ninth [hour]."


Other than the True Creator GOD, there is none else. The various "denominations" are the result of "private interpretations" of the scriptures which 2Pet.1:20-21 says is NOT to be done. Paul to the 2Thess.(2:3-4) tells of the Original False teachings. "Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."


"The Great Whore" is seen in Rev. Chap. 17.  It is the same usurping power which Dan.7:25; and  2Thes.2:3-4 have prophesied concerning. Notice: Its "daughters" are those "Ecclesiastical powers" which have /hold erroneous  teachings ("wine of her fornication") by which the "nations are made drunk".  It is the "power" which GOD calls HIS PEOPLE to "Come out of her". (Rev.18:4)


2 Cor.6:14-16, answers the "mixed fellowships" inquiry.  "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hathlight with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." 


Yes, the "END" certainly appears to be in the near future. and you are correct in assessing those who will allow it------""the guy downstairs keeps successfully twisting our puny little minds into pretzels.""  Paul put it this way.  "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way."

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 24, 2009 - 2:28AM #5
Unworthyone
Posts: 2,627

I'll take a crack at this...


Mat 22:35  Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Mat 22:36  Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38  This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


I believe Jesus is saying that everything we do needs to lead back to these two great commandments.  If we look closely, we can see that these commandments by definition have a prerequisite: We must have a relationship with our God (how can we love someone with whom we have no relationship?) and we must have a relationship with our neighbor (again, it is impossible to love someone whom we do not know).


This concept is compatible, even totally consistant with the Old Testament Ten Commandments:


Exo 20:3  Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4  Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6  And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7  Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exo 20:8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exo 20:12  Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Exo 20:13  Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14  Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15  Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16  Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo 20:17  Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


Look closely, you will see that the first four commandments (in red above) are commandments that deal specifically with man's relationship with God.  By keeping these commandments, it is hoped that we would develop a closer relationship with our God, ultimately learning to trust and even love our God.


The last four commandments deal with behaviors that will impact our relationships with our neighbors.  It is hoped that by obeying these commandments, we will draw closer to our fellow man.


In his book, "The Purpose-Driven Life" Rick Warren points out five basic purposes of human existence, and by extension, the basic purpose of the church (or body of believers).


1. We draw closer to our God by worshipping God.  We owe our very existence to God.  Our joy and happiness is all from Him, therefore, we ought to worship our Creator, both individually, and collectively as a community of believers.


2. Discipleship. We draw closer to our God by studying His Word and learning as much as we can about our God, hopefully becoming more like Him.


3. Fellowship.  We are able to put our thoughts and prayers into action when we spend time with like-minded believers, lifting each other up, and supporting all of us in our walk with God.


4. Ministry. We become more like Christ as we seek out the sick, poor, and afflicted and serve their needs.  We also go a long way toward fulfilling the second great commandment.


5. Evangelism.  This means taking opportunities to share the Good News with our fellow man.


 


Each of these five purposes help us to keep the Ten Commandments, which in turn lead us to keeping, indeed internalizing, the two Great Commandments.  Which leads to a question: What does God want?


Based on this brief scriptural analysis, apparently God wants all his children to love one another and have a loving relationship with Him.  All the rest is simply window dressing.


If anyone is in a church where they do not feel they are being fed spiritually, or they do not feel they are being drawn closer to their God and fellow man, they need to find a new church home.


 

I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend.  Thomas Jefferson

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein

You can get anything you want out of life if you will just help enough other people get what they want. Zig Ziglar

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/opinion/why-i-m-for-the-brady-bill.html
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 24, 2009 - 10:17AM #6
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Questionall,


Please remember that this this is the Baptist Forum and you are a guest.


All Churches and religions are man made up to a certain extent. This is because there are different interpretations of the Bible. This does not mean we disagree with Scripture but we often disagree on how it should be applied. For instance do we take the passages like  "unless a man is born of water and spirit..." to mean conversion or baptism? Do take "this is my body and this is my blood" literally or figuratively? we can go on on several issues.


Rather than answer your post point by point, I need to ask why you chose to visit our forum in such a way. This is supposed to be a somewhat friendly and safe forum for Baptists.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 24, 2009 - 4:46PM #7
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Sorry Unworthy, My Bad.


I had misread the original post to which you have responded.


Questionall needs to reread his original post which really seemed to call out the Baptists on this forum.


My opinion is that this thread should go to the Discuss Evangelical Christianity Forum.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 26, 2009 - 12:22PM #8
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,363

Hi roodog, arent you on the Anglican/Episcopal Forums alot? just wondering if your the same person.


 


God Bless

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry



You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger. Buddha.

What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies.”


― Thomas Cranmer
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 26, 2009 - 11:05PM #9
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Dec 26, 2009 -- 12:22PM, Jupiter6208 wrote:


Hi roodog, arent you on the Anglican/Episcopal Forums alot? just wondering if your the same person.


 


God Bless





Yes jupe, it's me.


Please note that while I do dissent on the TEC forum I do try to do so in a manner that does not violate ROC. I also bring to bear my memories of TEC when making my case. Even as 'Piskie, I was a rock ribbed conservative.


I suspected that trolling was going on  in the thread, not just dissent. Dissent is OK, but be prepared to be disagreed with. The original post had indications of total disrespect for religion altogether, not just the Baptist Church.


 

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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