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Switch to Forum Live View I'm starting to think this Lutheran board is dominated by ELCA Lutherans
8 years ago  ::  Nov 10, 2009 - 1:10PM #1
Pretribraptureissoon2033
Posts: 19

I don't want to be mean or anything, I just wish more WELS Lutherans and LCMS Lutheran individuals would be in this forum. I just don't want people who want to be Lutheran to get the wrong Idea that all Lutherans are liberal and like ELCA Lutherans. Outsiders need to know that we all have opinions but non-elca Lutherans are more for taking the bible as the literal word of God. I wish everybody the best no matter what the faith, however I wish that more non-lutherans who want to truly know Martin luther and non-compromised christianity go to www.lcms.org or www.wels.net.

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8 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2009 - 8:43AM #2
AFskypilot
Posts: 352

A couple of points.  Yes, this forum is used by ELCA Lutherans.  Nothing wrong with that.   We are respectful of differing points of view. 


You imply that Luther believed the Bible was the literal word of God.  Not exactly.  Luther understood that the Bible is the "manger in which the Word of God rested."  That Word is Jesus Christ.  He had questioned the validity of several books in the Bible, calling them no more than straw, notably James and Revelations.


It is presumptuous of you to imply that the ELCA has compromised Christianity.  You are assuming that the WELS and LCMS are both pure.  If that is true, then why are they two separate Synods.  They are not even in fellowship with each other.  One reason why they are not in fellowship is because they cannot agree on every iota of doctrine. 


And, what is with your name?  Pretribulation?  Not exactly a Lutheran doctrine at that.  The teaching of the "rapture" did not develop until 1862.  It was first promoted  by a John Nelson Darby, an Anglican priest.  This was picked up by Cyrus Scofield who expanded the thought in the Scofield Reference Bible into seven different dispensations leading up to the final rapture.   Of course, the Left Behind series has popularized the concept most recently.


If you are so sure the LCMS is teaching the correct doctrine, then I invite you to go to the following link to see what it says about the tribulation and rapture.


www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/...


I happen to agree with what they are saying.  You probably don't.  If I am in agreement with the LCMS and you are not, who is more Lutheran, you or me?


Oh, and, my board name "AFSkypilot" comes from the fact that I was a former chaplain in the Air Force.  Skypilot is a term GI's used for "chaplain" in WWII.

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8 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2009 - 11:42AM #3
Pretribraptureissoon2033
Posts: 19

I salute you AFskypilot and I honor all the men and women in the armed forces, maybe I am wrong about the pre-trib rapture or maybe not. On this veterans day I just want to write Thank You from the bottom of my heart and God bless. I think that whether or not the pre-trib rapture is true or not doesn't matter very much. However, being a WELS Lutheran is more out of personal belief in Conservative Christianity. I wish all of you the best and especially men and women who have served the U.S.A. with their personal sacrifice. His servant I am-Phillip.

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8 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2009 - 8:39PM #4
AFskypilot
Posts: 352

You are welcome, pretrib.  On a day like this, you don't know how much it means to me that someone has recognized my service.  I return your salute as an officer.


Now to the question of the end times.  I have already given you a reference from the LCMS on the Rapture. A similar reference from the WELS is @


www.wels.net/news-events/forward-in-chri...


an even more detailed study (again from the LCMS) is


www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/...


I could not find a similar document from the WELS, but I would think it too would be quite similar.


You say you take your name because you are a conservative Christian.  The "rapture theology", though is not exactly conservative.  It is more radical.  As I pointed out yesterday it was not even fomulated until the 1860's. The first church bodies to event give official assent to it was the Seventh Day Adventists and the Jehovah Witnesses, which came into being at about that time.  It caught on in the Southeastern states because of the effects of the Civil War.  After all, when you go through such a horrendous experience from brought about by the war, there is a desire to make some sense out of it.  Consequently, it is not surprising that churches which come from the South seem to give it more credence.


But, if you look at the Lutheran Confessions, you will not see any mention of the tribulations as popularized by the Left Behind Series.  Luther would think you are from another planet if you were to ask him about it.  Yes, the Lutheran fathers all looked forward to the second coming of Christ, even prayed for it, but they would have problems with Christians being taken up into the clouds leaving the heathens on earth for a 1,000 years.  No they believed in a final judgement in which the sheep will be separated from the goats in one final event, then there would be a New Jerusalem.


If you are proud to be a conservative Lutheran, be it WELS or LCMS, I think it behooves you to really look at what they say about the Rapture and the Tribulations.  Otherwise if someone would ask you on this board what consevative Lutherans believe about the question, you would likely be misrepresenting what those Synods actually say about the end times.


 


 

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8 years ago  ::  Nov 12, 2009 - 7:39AM #5
tawonda
Posts: 4,367

The WELS would tell you that Milennialism/"Rapture theology" is a heresy. They don't like what they perceive as heresy. So your devotion to WELS is a bit perplexing.

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8 years ago  ::  Nov 14, 2009 - 6:03PM #6
AFskypilot
Posts: 352

Did we chase Pretrib off?

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2014 - 9:58PM #7
Garymm
Posts: 1

Let first say that I realize that these posts are almost 5 years old and I am also new to this forum That beingsaid here goes.


I would tend to agree with AFskypilot that there is not a pretrib rapture and that we as Lutherans are taught that at the final judgement there will be a sorting of the sheep and goats one time at the second coming of Jesus Christ.  From all that I have found in reference to the "rapture" all Lutheran bodies, WELC, ELCA, LCMS, and all the German based Lutherans teach the same basic belief.


As for a statement you made Pretribraptureis the ELCA has become quite liberal in its doctrine and is quite true.  The ELCA is getting farther and farther from Martin Luthers teachings and beliefs.  This latest Red hymnal is so far removed from anything remotely traditional where the liturgy is concerned it is a shame.  The liturgy is so ambiguous and out in left field that I hardly recognize it anymore.


I was raised in mostly LCA churches prior to the joining together of the LCA, ALC and the Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches and have watched the unwarranted liberalization of the ELCA ever since.  I like many feel that it is time to leave the ELCA and go to a more conservative church body.  Therein lies the problem there is no alternative in a small town if one wishes to stay in a Lutheran church so then one hopes that the new pastor is also not happy with the liberal ways of the Bishop and his minions.


Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches
Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches


Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches
Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches
Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches



Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches

Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 25, 2014 - 6:50PM #8
teilhard
Posts: 53,304

It is true that ELCA Lutherans for the most Part are not slavish Devotees of the late Rev. Fr. Prof. Dr. Martin Luther, OSA, who after all died in 1546 C.E. ...

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 25, 2014 - 8:13PM #9
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,483

As to the name of this thread. This board has been dominated by Crickets.

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 26, 2014 - 9:56PM #10
Steve13
Posts: 1

The way I see it as a former WELS and current Missouri Synod member: it's better to have Christians practicing their Faith and following their God than having Haters all around us.  Faith and its Grace just makes Society better and stronger - regardless of Lutheran denomination, Christian or Catholic.


Ever stop to think God inspired Man to create all these different Faiths so He could entice as many souls as He could to follow Him?  Think about it:  how happy would people be everyone drove the same color and model car, lived in the same style house with the same style landscaping?  I believe different Faiths exist because God understands everyone is different.  It's not beyond the realm of possibility.  There will NEVER AGAIN be a "pure" church because that man died on the cross 2,000+ years ago and left it in the hands of Man.

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