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Switch to Forum Live View Thinking of leaving
5 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2009 - 4:04PM #1
Sk127
Posts: 2

Hi, I am posting this because I do not in good conscience believe I can stay in the RCC.


I have been Catholic all my life, and it has (almost) always been a source of great joy to me, I have often given thanks to God for His wonderful gifts of the Eucharist and the other sacrements and I have always tried to live my life according to Jesus's teachings.


However, I am starting to feel that staying with the church is the wrong thing to do. This is due to the teachings on contraception, marriage and the role of women, and homosexuality, which obviously are all interlinked.


Firstly, marriage and the role of women: According to Catholic teaching, marriage should be soley between man and woman, and its main purpose should be procreation, with mutual support and love a secondary result. There seems to be no place for people who wish to marry because they wish to spend their life with another person. There is also no room for people who wish to limit the size of their families so as to give each child a better life, because they are worried about the environmental impact of their family, or even because they wish to adopt an existing child. There is also a tradition that the man should be the leader, and the creative force, while the woman should be receptive and nuturing. This excludes the women, like me, who identify far more with the leading creative, so called 'male' identity. For me, it seems that to have a good Catholic marriage I must change who I am, and it is more important to have my own children than help ones who already exist and need a loving family.


I also cannot in good conscience condemn marriage between homosexuals, who only wish to have the recognition and support that heterosexual couples have. They don't want permission to live together, or have sex, they do that already. They want to be able to add their partner to their insurance, or visit them in hospital as a family member, and they want to be seen as people who have made a committment of love to one another.


It seems to me that the church just makes blanket statements, regardless of how they affect individuals. Saying contraception is bad, while not providing adequate sexual education about STDs such as AIDS, saying that abortion is wrong, while not addressing the factors that make women feel as though abortion is their only choice, saying that homosexual marriage is wrong and ignoring the fact that a homosexual relationship, just like a hetero one, is based on a whole lot more than just sex. I cannot see love or compassion in any of these things, and I cannot keep spouting them off to people without feeling like I am being both dishonest, ignorant and cruel.


My question therefore is: is it better to be a bad Catholic, or a good something else. I am investigating the Society fof Friends, due to their emphasis on pacifism and social justice, rather than on judging others. However, I still feel great pain at leaving the church which I have loved so long. Please pray for me, as I am having great difficulty in deciding the right course.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2009 - 8:01PM #2
ted08721
Posts: 3,776

Hi, I see this is your first post, welcome to Beliefnet.
Some leave, some stay, I can't blame those that have left.
I myself decided to stay around for a bit longer, there may come a day when I may give up.
But if you look hard enough you will find those that think like you that are not willing to give up yet.
I have found whole parishes that are inclusive and seek out the gospels before church law.
There are many groups dedicated to reform in the Church.
I guess it all comes down to how much your Catholic faith means to you.  Ted

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2009 - 8:10PM #3
ted08721
Posts: 3,776

BTW you might want to visit the Catholic Discussion Forum, you will find more posters that think like you over there, including me :) community.beliefnet.com/go/forum/view/34...

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2009 - 3:17PM #4
Sk127
Posts: 2

Hi Ted, thanks for your reply!


I have been looking through that forum and it is very interesting and comforting (in some ways)

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2009 - 4:50PM #5
ted08721
Posts: 3,776

There are many forums throughout the internet where many Catholics tend to look through rose colored glasses, anyone that dares speak out about issues and do not agree with the official party line are labeled as malcontents and in many cases are told to leave and go join a protestant church.

I kind of like the viewpoint this person took when up against such odds

www.arlingtoncemetery.net/amcauli.htm

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 10:39AM #6
steve123
Posts: 610

Leaving is definitely an option.  However, even if everyone left the RCC, it still doesn't change what truth is.  Be it the magesterium, scripture or tradition, the RCC holds to the truth.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 11:44AM #7
ted08721
Posts: 3,776

Aug 24, 2009 -- 10:39AM, steve123 wrote:


Leaving is definitely an option.  However, even if everyone left the RCC, it still doesn't change what truth is.  Be it the magesterium, scripture or tradition, the RCC holds to the truth.





Staying is definately an option, as VOTF motto  states "Keep the Faith, Change The Church.


www.votf.org/

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 11:52AM #8
ted08721
Posts: 3,776

The ACC is another organization that has recently been established that many groups are signninig onto.

americancatholiccouncil.org/

They use the words of Pope John XXIII

"'It is not that the Gospel has changed: it is that we have begun to understand it better... the moment has come to discern the signs of the times, to seize the opportunity and to look far ahead."

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 12:26PM #9
ted08721
Posts: 3,776

The Church must move forward while returning to the Traditions of the early Church, not stuck in some medieval time period with all its trappings.

. Pope Leo I (440-461) said no one could be a bishop unless he was elected by the clergy, accepted by his people, and consecrated by the bishops of his province.


In 1086, Pope Gregory VII created a monarchic papacy and a two-tier citizenship in the Church, with elite, celibate priest-people on one side, who set the rules, and common, non-celibate people-people on the other who obeyed them

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2009 - 5:49PM #10
Douglas_macneill
Posts: 447

Patrick51 posted the following on the Anglican/Episcopalian forum:



 


(quote) Hello Fellow Christians of the Episcopal Tradition.


Today I read in the National Catholic Register that Pope Benedict and other Vatican officials are considering liturgical "reforms" which would, among other things: return to the Mass being said in Latin (in order to make it seem more sacred); prohibit reception of the Eucharist by the laity in the hand (which might be an "abuse"); and have the priest turn his back on the congregation while he says mass to himself in Latin (that's my description, not theirs.)

I lived through those days.  I suspected that John Paul II and Benedict XVI did not like Vatican II.  I suppose I'm naive for not expecting this before.  The article emphasized that no decisions had been yet made.  But one can see it coming.  My God, are they TRYING to get rid of me? 


This is not just a matter of where I kneel and pray on Sunday morning.  This is a matter of my self-identity as a person.  Part of WHAT makes me, me.

I'm considering starting a listserv for completely secular Catholics.  Men and women who will always consider themselves Catholic for their own reasons, but have completely chucked out the entire religion thing..... (end quote)


As this Anglican understood it, celebrating Mass in the vernacular was nothing less than giving the laity back their Holy Communion.  By the use of Latin instead of the vernacular, the higher-ups in Catholicism took Holy Communion away from the laity for their own use. In so doing, these higher-ups violated a central practice of the early Church that rituals should be done in the local language.  That's why one of the most basic issues in the Protestant-Catholic quarrel concerns the use of the vernacular in the worship of the Church.


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