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8 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2009 - 9:16AM #1
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,483

Anyone hear Anything lately on the ELCA Assembly and their sexual issues?

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry
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8 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2009 - 11:46AM #2
ToujoursDan
Posts: 1,065

They passed their Social Statement by a 2/3rds majority.


In part it says:


...We in the ELCA recognize that many of our sisters and brothers in same-gender relationships sincerely desire the support of other Christians for living faithfully in all aspects of their lives, including their sexual fidelity. In response, we have drawn deeply on our Lutheran theological heritage and Scripture. This has led, however, to differing and conscience-bound understandings about the place of such relationships within the Christian community. We have come to various conclusions concerning how to regard lifelong, monogamous same-gender relationships, including whether and how to publicly recognize their lifelong commitments.

While Lutherans hold various convictions regarding lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships, this church is united on many critical issues. It opposes all forms of verbal or physical harassment and assault based on sexual orientation. It supports legislation and policies to protect civil rights and to prohibit discrimination in housing, employment, and public services. It has called upon congregations and members to welcome, care for, and support same-gender couples and their families, and to advocate for their legal protection.

The ELCA recognizes that it has a pastoral responsibility to all children of God. This includes a pastoral responsibility to those who are same-gender in their orientation and to those who are seeking counsel about their sexual self-understanding. All are encouraged to avail themselves of the means of grace and pastoral care...

...We understand that, in this discernment about ethics and church practice, faithful people can and will come to different conclusions about the meaning of Scripture and about what constitutes responsible action. We further believe that this church, on the basis of “the bound conscience,” will include these different understandings and practices within its life as it seeks to live out its mission and ministry in the world...


Essentially they have endorsed a "local option" when it comes to accepting gay couples and to me it sounds very similar to the Resolution the TEC passed at its General Convention.


Next on their agenda is the changes to Pastor's Rostering Standards, which currently exclude gay couples in partnerships.


1. RESOLVED, that the ELCA commit itself to finding ways to allow congregations that choose to do so to recognize, support, and hold publicly accountable life-long,monogamous, same-gender relationships.

2. RESOLVED, that the ELCA commit itself to finding a way for people in such publicly accountable, lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships to serve as rostered leaders of this church.

3. RESOLVED, that, in the implementation of these resolutions, the ELCA commit itself to bear one another’s burdens, love the neighbor, and respect the bound consciences of all.


There is supposed to be a vote on this today.


 


 


 


 


 

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8 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2009 - 12:48PM #3
Dutch777
Posts: 9,144

Thank you Dan for posting that.  I've been following ELCA's developments on this matter.  I'll bet they were closely following news of TEC's deliberations and tussles.


Yes, it does sound like a "local option" to me.

The Path
To Moon
lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
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Mindful

Dutch
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8 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2009 - 4:40PM #4
maplewood
Posts: 4,517

That brings up the question: have they been threatened with schism by any particular group opposed to these measures?

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8 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2009 - 5:47PM #5
mecdukebec
Posts: 16,084

Oh, now the Lutherans have gone and done itBaptist preacher, John Piper, today warned the ELCA Synod meeting in Minneapolis, that God (yes, God) sent a tornado against the Lutherans for voting on gay clergy, and just before the vote, no less:



On a day when no severe weather was predicted or expected...a tornado forms, baffling the weather experts-most saying they've never seen anything like it. It happens right in the city. The city: Minneapolis.

The tornado happens on a Wednesday...during the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America's national convention in the Minneapolis Convention Center. The convention is using Central Lutheran across the street as its church. The church has set up tents around it's building for this purpose.


According to the ELCA's printed convention schedule, at 2 PM on Wednesday, August 19, the 5th session of the convention was to begin. The main item of the session: "Consideration: Proposed Social Statement on Human Sexuality." The issue is whether practicing homosexuality is a behavior that should disqualify a person from the pastoral ministry.

The eyewitness of the damage continues:




This curious tornado touches down just south of downtown and follows 35W straight towards the city center. It crosses I94. It is now downtown.  

The time: 2PM.  

The first buildings on the downtown side of I94 are the Minneapolis Convention Center and Central Lutheran. The tornado severely damages the convention center roof, shreds the tents, breaks off the steeple of Central Lutheran, splits what's left of the steeple in two...and then lifts.   




 



 


The Rev's theology is stunning, utterly stunning, to-wit, reason number 4:


4. Jesus Christ controls the wind, including all tornados.


 Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him? (Mark 4:41)


 


(Query:  Does this apply to bovine flatulence?)


 


6. Conclusion: The tornado in Minneapolis was a gentle but firm warning to the ELCA and all of us: Turn from the approval of sin. Turn from the promotion of behaviors that lead to destruction. Reaffirm the great Lutheran heritage of allegiance to the truth and authority of Scripture. Turn back from distorting the grace of God into sensuality. Rejoice in the pardon of the cross of Christ and its power to transform left and right wing sinners.






www.desiringgod.org/Blog/1965_the_tornad...


*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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8 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2009 - 6:12PM #6
Dutch777
Posts: 9,144

I'm disappointed with God


He's losing his malevolent touch; He's going soft.


Psst !  He only wacked the top off the church spire.


In the old days He'd wack entire populations.  Just think of Noah's flood, or God's command to execute genocide against the Canaanites.  Think of the ten plagues of Egypt and the bear who ate the children who were mocking Elijah.


Give me the Traditional God; the one who flings unbaptized babies into eternal flame, sends AIDS to cure homosexuality, and will devastate with meteorites those towns which allow the teaching of evolution.


Maybe God should take vitamins, do twenty pushups in the morning, and confer with more fundy clergy when making decisions.


Half measures only encourage them liberals.

The Path
To Moon
lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own
DharmaPath
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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8 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2009 - 8:41PM #7
LitanyoftheSaints
Posts: 1,223

Piper could at least try to be a little more original. That same kind of nonsense was spouted by Pat Robertson years before.


Last year, one of the crosses on my church broke off  after a wind storm. I guess we were being punished. Nothing to do with corosion of copper over 150 years or anything.

"The centrality of our mission is to love each other. That means caring for our neighbors. And it does not mean bickering about fine points of doctrine."- ++KJS
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"We are to be Christ's hands and feet and heart and mind and we cannot do that if we assume God's role of judgment. The judge's job is filled. God alone is judge! Those who would be Saviors of the Church and the people in it are also reminded that the Savior's job has been filled. Jesus Christ filled it once for all. "- Bishop Rodney Michel
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8 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2009 - 11:06PM #8
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,483

The Lutherans add another spoke to their Ecumenical Wheel, the Methodists. So now the Methodists are in full communion with the Lutherans who are in full communion with the Episcopalians. What a great day for the Body!

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry
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8 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2009 - 8:47AM #9
ToujoursDan
Posts: 1,065

Aug 20, 2009 -- 4:40PM, maplewood wrote:


That brings up the question: have they been threatened with schism by any particular group opposed to these measures?




Yes. There are a couple groups - Lutheran Core and Word Alone.


The big difference here is that Lutherans are already subdivided into liberal and conservative bodies - the ELCA being the liberal body and the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod being conservative bodies, so the dissatisfied can move into one of the other groups if things don't go their way.



(I also think it's possible for a Lutheran congregation to leave the ELCA and keep their property.)

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8 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2009 - 9:43PM #10
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

In today's news, I had read that ELCA had lifted the ban on active gay clergy.


Now , is ELCA in communion with TEC or is that another Lutheran denomination?


Just an honest question

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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