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Switch to Forum Live View Thoughts on the Trinity
5 years ago  ::  Aug 09, 2009 - 7:27PM #1
Keyfer
Posts: 2,923


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This post directly challenges the idea that the Christian God is three separate and distinct People. It is not presented as an attack of any kind, this is me sharing what I believe at this point in time. I sincerely believe that the ideas presented here are scriptural, God honoring and above all, true. I would appreciate your feedback very much, thank you in advance for your honest comments whether pro or con. 




Israelites were taught that God is one person. De 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:” (KJV) Isa 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.” (KJV) Isa 44:6 “The Lord, the King of Israel, even the Lord of armies who has taken up his cause, says, I am the first and the last, and there is no God but me.” (Basic English Version)


In Isiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Notice that this is a prophecy that the son given (Jesus) shall be called, “everlasting Father”. In Colossians 2:9, Paul says that the fullness of the Godhead exists in the Lord Jesus Christ and in John 14:10 and elsewhere, the Lord confirms that the Father is in Him. In the following verse from Matthew, Jesus explains that He reveals the Father to whomsoever He will…Mt 11:27 “…neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.” Philip asked the Lord to reveal the Father to him in John 14:8 & 9, “Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?” Notice that He directed Philip's attention to Himself, not to a different person. If the Father was a different person, I believe that the Lord would have said something like, “When you get to heaven, I will introduce you to my Father.”


Now, if you will, go to our Lord in prayer and ask Him to show you the Father. Can you imagine Him giving you a different answer?


In Mt 28:18, Jesus said that all power in heaven and on earth was given to Him. If God exists in 3 persons, how could only one have all power? If one has all power, the other 2 have no power. What kind of God has no power?


I realize that this is a rather controversial subject and that most of us Christians have been taught that God exists in 3 separate and distinct divine persons. I was confused about this for a long time and have eventually come to the conclusion that God is one person Who exists as a Trinity. In other words, The Holy Trinity is not a trinity of people. This is how I see it... Jehovah had to clothe Himself with a physical body and make it divine (one with Himself) in order to preserve the human race along with our ability to freely choose good and reject evil, He accomplished this in Jesus Christ. During this deification process, Jesus referred to His Father and prayed to Him as though He were a different person because He was.


The body that Jehovah prepared for Himself with Mary had a personality from Mary who prayed to and referred to Jehovah as his father. This personality had evil inclinations and could therefore be tempted with evil. Of course, Jesus never gave in to temptation and therefore, never sinned.


Matthew 4:1 “Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”


 


God has no evil inclinations and therefore cannot be tempted with evil.


 


James 1:13 “...God cannot be tempted with evil...”




If Jesus had existed from eternity as fully God, then came to earth, He could not have been tempted with evil.


Jesus, before being deified, had to successfully overcome every possible temptation.


Hebrews 4:15 “For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”


After Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life and was deified ( “I must go to the Father” ), He was made the one and only manifestation of Jehovah, the Everlasting Father, the Alpha and the Omega, God in His fullness. The evil inclinations inherited from us through Mary were completely displaced by Jehovah's Divine inclinations (as is ours, to a degree, during our regeneration). Jesus is the only God of Heaven and Earth. When we look at Jesus, we see Jehovah because He is Jehovah. In Him, God became man and man became God, in other words, Jehovah became Jesus and Jesus became Jehovah. The prophecy in Isiah 9:6 has come to pass (The son given us has become the Everlasting Father). He is now present with us as the Holy Spirit ( I am with you always - Matthew 28:20).


The Holy Trinity is not a trinity of separate and distinct people, but consists of Essence (Father), Body (Son), and Spirit, which emanates, or proceeds from Him. Which we as receptacles are capable of receiving and acting from. We each, being created in His image, exist as a trinity also. We consist of essence in a body and have that which proceeds from us which others detect and refer to as “personality” or “spirit” (Example, she has a good personality, or spirit).




PS - If we Christians promote the idea of God being three separate and distinct persons, are we not forfeiting our status as a monotheistic religion? We may say that we believe in One God in three Divine Persons but couldn't any polytheistic religion claim to be monotheistic using that argument (One God in 100 or more Divine Persons)?


What do you think?


 


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5 years ago  ::  Aug 09, 2009 - 8:00PM #2
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

I was going to warn you about this guy, but hes posted before I could get to you.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 09, 2009 - 11:15PM #3
Keyfer
Posts: 2,923

Dear Roodog


 


Do you think that you might be over reacting? I prefaced my post with an honest description of my statement. Am I taking away anyone's freedom to make their own choice to believe what they choose? I have read far more provocative posts and I have discussed this topic with a trinitarian on the pentacostal oneness site. I did not feel threatened or upset about the cross over ( a trinitarian on the oneness site, that is ). I honestly mean no harm.


 


Sincerely,


 


Keyfer

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2009 - 2:13PM #4
ToujoursDan
Posts: 1,065

You're spamming.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2009 - 9:23PM #5
Keyfer
Posts: 2,923

Dear ToujoursDan


Am I not allowed to post the same thread on different forums?


Respectfully


Keyfer

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2009 - 3:30PM #6
ToujoursDan
Posts: 1,065

It's against the Rules of Conduct.


 


14. Spam: You agree not to repeat substantially the same content (including URLs) more than once on Beliefnet Forums.


 


www.beliefnet.com/About-Us/Rules-of-Cond...

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2009 - 8:37PM #7
Keyfer
Posts: 2,923

Thank you sir, I should have known that. I apologize, it will not happen again.


 


Peace.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2009 - 12:05AM #8
spudette
Posts: 959

Keyfer, I haven't seen the other comments on this subjects. I am simply commenting on your post above. If God is not one God in three distinct Persons, why does He use the plural form at the time of Creation? "Let Us make Man in Our image"? Why does the Hebrew word used indicate more than one Person? (Elohim) Why would God need to "send" Himself to our world?


God is the only Being that was NOT created. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is not God, then? Yet He accepted worship from human beings. Holy angels, who ARE created beings, never accepted worship from humans. If God is not a created Being, how can Jesus  "become" God at some point? If He has divine nature now, He had to have had divine nature always, otherwise, He would at some point have been created. That doesn't make any sense.


If any being can be deified at some point of his existence, that would mean that other beings could be deified also. Satan wanted to be God too. That was his problem, and look where it got him.


Jesus Christ referred to Himself as "The Alpha and the Omega". That means that He existed before any beings were created. The Bible teaches that He, Jesus, actually did the work of creation. NO created being can do that. Jesus also said that no one in this world has ever seen the Father. So if He is both Father and Son, that would make Him a liar. And what about His promise to pray that the Father send us another helper when He, Jesus, returned to Heaven? that doesn't sound like one single entity to me.


I don't see where three distinct Persons would mean three Gods, either, but rather that God is a community , or family of Beings in total and perfect unity of purpose. Also, if God were one single Being, He couldn't be the embodiment of love, for He could only love Himself.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2009 - 10:27PM #9
Keyfer
Posts: 2,923

Hi there spudette


Thank you for your post. May I direct you to discussions on the Methodist and Pentecostal Oneness forums where you can read my responses to your questions? I believe that each of your questions will be addressed there except for your last one.


I do believe that God is One Person and that He created us to have someone to love. We have free will and can choose to love or reject Him, therefore those of us who choose to reciprocate His love are satisfying His need to be loved. By creating us, He made a way for Himself to love and to be loved in return.


Blessings

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 13, 2009 - 1:04AM #10
spudette
Posts: 959

That is why I post here, Keyfer, to find out what other people believe and why, and to share what I believe and why. Thank you for your answer. It's nice to be able to exchange opinions whithout getting mad at each other. Smile

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