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Switch to Forum Live View Thoughts on the Trinity
5 years ago  ::  Aug 09, 2009 - 7:26PM #1
Keyfer
Posts: 2,719





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This post directly challenges the idea that the Christian God is three separate and distinct People. It is not presented as an attack of any kind, this is me sharing what I believe at this point in time. I sincerely believe that the ideas presented here are scriptural, God honoring and above all, true. I would appreciate your feedback very much, thank you in advance for your honest comments whether pro or con. 




Israelites were taught that God is one person. De 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:” (KJV) Isa 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.” (KJV) Isa 44:6 “The Lord, the King of Israel, even the Lord of armies who has taken up his cause, says, I am the first and the last, and there is no God but me.” (Basic English Version)


In Isiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Notice that this is a prophecy that the son given (Jesus) shall be called, “everlasting Father”. In Colossians 2:9, Paul says that the fullness of the Godhead exists in the Lord Jesus Christ and in John 14:10 and elsewhere, the Lord confirms that the Father is in Him. In the following verse from Matthew, Jesus explains that He reveals the Father to whomsoever He will…Mt 11:27 “…neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.” Philip asked the Lord to reveal the Father to him in John 14:8 & 9, “Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?” Notice that He directed Philip's attention to Himself, not to a different person. If the Father was a different person, I believe that the Lord would have said something like, “When you get to heaven, I will introduce you to my Father.”


Now, if you will, go to our Lord in prayer and ask Him to show you the Father. Can you imagine Him giving you a different answer?


In Mt 28:18, Jesus said that all power in heaven and on earth was given to Him. If God exists in 3 persons, how could only one have all power? If one has all power, the other 2 have no power. What kind of God has no power?


I realize that this is a rather controversial subject and that most of us Christians have been taught that God exists in 3 separate and distinct divine persons. I was confused about this for a long time and have eventually come to the conclusion that God is one person Who exists as a Trinity. In other words, The Holy Trinity is not a trinity of people. This is how I see it... Jehovah had to clothe Himself with a physical body and make it divine (one with Himself) in order to preserve the human race along with our ability to freely choose good and reject evil, He accomplished this in Jesus Christ. During this deification process, Jesus referred to His Father and prayed to Him as though He were a different person because He was.


The body that Jehovah prepared for Himself with Mary had a personality from Mary who prayed to and referred to Jehovah as his father. This personality had evil inclinations and could therefore be tempted with evil. Of course, Jesus never gave in to temptation and therefore, never sinned.


Matthew 4:1 “Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”


 


God has no evil inclinations and therefore cannot be tempted with evil.


 


James 1:13 “...God cannot be tempted with evil...”




If Jesus had existed from eternity as fully God, then came to earth, He could not have been tempted with evil.


Jesus, before being deified, had to successfully overcome every possible temptation.


Hebrews 4:15 “For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”


After Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life and was deified ( “I must go to the Father” ), He was made the one and only manifestation of Jehovah, the Everlasting Father, the Alpha and the Omega, God in His fullness. The evil inclinations inherited from us through Mary were completely displaced by Jehovah's Divine inclinations (as is ours, to a degree, during our regeneration). Jesus is the only God of Heaven and Earth. When we look at Jesus, we see Jehovah because He is Jehovah. In Him, God became man and man became God, in other words, Jehovah became Jesus and Jesus became Jehovah. The prophecy in Isiah 9:6 has come to pass (The son given us has become the Everlasting Father). He is now present with us as the Holy Spirit ( I am with you always - Matthew 28:20).


The Holy Trinity is not a trinity of separate and distinct people, but consists of Essence (Father), Body (Son), and Spirit, which emanates, or proceeds from Him. Which we as receptacles are capable of receiving and acting from. We each, being created in His image, exist as a trinity also. We consist of essence in a body and have that which proceeds from us which others detect and refer to as “personality” or “spirit” (Example, she has a good personality, or spirit).




PS - If we Christians promote the idea of God being three separate and distinct persons, are we not forfeiting our status as a monotheistic religion? We may say that we believe in One God in three Divine Persons but couldn't any polytheistic religion claim to be monotheistic using that argument (One God in 100 or more Divine Persons)?


What do you think?


 


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5 years ago  ::  Aug 09, 2009 - 8:05PM #2
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

This guy is all over the denominational forums. He hit mine first and then I realized  he's challenging all the trinitarian denominations.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 09, 2009 - 11:06PM #3
Keyfer
Posts: 2,719

Dear Roodog


Do you think that you might be over reacting? I prefaced my post with an honest description of my statement. Am I taking away anyone's freedom to make their own choice to believe what they choose? I have read far more provocative posts and I have discussed this topic with a trinitarian on the pentacostal oneness site. I did not feel threatened or upset about the cross over ( a trinitarian on the oneness site, that is ). I honestly mean no harm.


Sincerely,


Keyfer


 

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5 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2010 - 1:37PM #4
Carmelo2818
Posts: 3

WE LIVE IN SUCH A DIVERSE WORLD BECAUSE OF ALL THE DIFFERENT NATIONALITIES; BELIEFS; RELIGIONS; CULTURES; AND SO FORTH. AND IT'S SAD, BUT TRUE. THAT SO MANY WONDERFUL PEOPLE, ARE GOING TO FALL SHORT, OF ENTERING THE KINGDOM OF GOD! IT'S JUST AS SIMPLE AS THAT. SPEAKING AS A CHRISTIAN, I WILL SAY THAT THERE WILL BE CHRISTIANS WHO ARE GOING TO CHURCH RIGHT NOW, WHO WILL FALL SHORT TOO. AS A  MATTER OF FACT. I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS WHERE GOD IS GOING TO CLEAN HOUSE FIRST! THOSE PROFESSING TO FOLLOW GOD, BUT THEIR HEART AND INTENTIONS ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE, I BELIEVE WILL BE THE FIRST TO BE JUDGED. I KNOW THAT I HAVE A LOT TO ANSWER FOR, BUT MY GOD IS A MERCIFUL AND FORGIVING GOD. BUT DOES THIS MEAN THAT IT'S OKAY TO KEEP ON SINNING? ABSOLUTELY NOT. GOD KNOWS YOUR HEART. AND HE KNOWS HIS SHEEP. YES...THERE IS A JUDGEMENT DAY!!!SO I HAVE TO GET IT RIGHT NOW! AND YES...CHRIST IS RETURNING!!!!EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW...AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD...STRAIGHT AND SIMPLE....THE CHOICE IS YOURS...OH...AND YES...GOD IS A TRIUNE GOD....GOD THE FATHER; GOD THE SON; GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT.....AWESOME...JESUS CHRIST IS....THE LIVING GOD.....

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5 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2010 - 11:46AM #5
Kingskidd
Posts: 87

Did you know that down to the smallest microscopic particle, evrything is made up of 3 components. Even humans have a body, spirit, and mind. The bible clearly assigns the title God to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in different parts of scripture. Just because we can't fanthom how this can be doesn't mean that it's not a reality. How do we even expect to understand the full nature of God at this point other than what the scripture gives us.

kingskidd
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2010 - 7:22PM #6
Carmelo2818
Posts: 3

Dear brother,


 


I'm with you........


 


 


Aug 9, 2009 -- 7:26PM, Keyfer wrote:





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This post directly challenges the idea that the Christian God is three separate and distinct People. It is not presented as an attack of any kind, this is me sharing what I believe at this point in time. I sincerely believe that the ideas presented here are scriptural, God honoring and above all, true. I would appreciate your feedback very much, thank you in advance for your honest comments whether pro or con.


 


Israelites were taught that God is one person. De 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:” (KJV) Isa 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.” (KJV) Isa 44:6 “The Lord, the King of Israel, even the Lord of armies who has taken up his cause, says, I am the first and the last, and there is no God but me.” (Basic English Version)


In Isiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Notice that this is a prophecy that the son given (Jesus) shall be called, “everlasting Father”. In Colossians 2:9, Paul says that the fullness of the Godhead exists in the Lord Jesus Christ and in John 14:10 and elsewhere, the Lord confirms that the Father is in Him. In the following verse from Matthew, Jesus explains that He reveals the Father to whomsoever He will…Mt 11:27 “…neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.” Philip asked the Lord to reveal the Father to him in John 14:8 & 9, “Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?” Notice that He directed Philip's attention to Himself, not to a different person. If the Father was a different person, I believe that the Lord would have said something like, “When you get to heaven, I will introduce you to my Father.”


Now, if you will, go to our Lord in prayer and ask Him to show you the Father. Can you imagine Him giving you a different answer?


In Mt 28:18, Jesus said that all power in heaven and on earth was given to Him. If God exists in 3 persons, how could only one have all power? If one has all power, the other 2 have no power. What kind of God has no power?


I realize that this is a rather controversial subject and that most of us Christians have been taught that God exists in 3 separate and distinct divine persons. I was confused about this for a long time and have eventually come to the conclusion that God is one person Who exists as a Trinity. In other words, The Holy Trinity is not a trinity of people. This is how I see it... Jehovah had to clothe Himself with a physical body and make it divine (one with Himself) in order to preserve the human race along with our ability to freely choose good and reject evil, He accomplished this in Jesus Christ. During this deification process, Jesus referred to His Father and prayed to Him as though He were a different person because He was.


The body that Jehovah prepared for Himself with Mary had a personality from Mary who prayed to and referred to Jehovah as his father. This personality had evil inclinations and could therefore be tempted with evil. Of course, Jesus never gave in to temptation and therefore, never sinned.


Matthew 4:1 “Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”


 


God has no evil inclinations and therefore cannot be tempted with evil.


 


James 1:13 “...God cannot be tempted with evil...”


 


If Jesus had existed from eternity as fully God, then came to earth, He could not have been tempted with evil.


Jesus, before being deified, had to successfully overcome every possible temptation.


Hebrews 4:15 “For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”


After Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life and was deified ( “I must go to the Father” ), He was made the one and only manifestation of Jehovah, the Everlasting Father, the Alpha and the Omega, God in His fullness. The evil inclinations inherited from us through Mary were completely displaced by Jehovah's Divine inclinations (as is ours, to a degree, during our regeneration). Jesus is the only God of Heaven and Earth. When we look at Jesus, we see Jehovah because He is Jehovah. In Him, God became man and man became God, in other words, Jehovah became Jesus and Jesus became Jehovah. The prophecy in Isiah 9:6 has come to pass (The son given us has become the Everlasting Father). He is now present with us as the Holy Spirit ( I am with you always - Matthew 28:20).


The Holy Trinity is not a trinity of separate and distinct people, but consists of Essence (Father), Body (Son), and Spirit, which emanates, or proceeds from Him. Which we as receptacles are capable of receiving and acting from. We each, being created in His image, exist as a trinity also. We consist of essence in a body and have that which proceeds from us which others detect and refer to as “personality” or “spirit” (Example, she has a good personality, or spirit).


 


PS - If we Christians promote the idea of God being three separate and distinct persons, are we not forfeiting our status as a monotheistic religion? We may say that we believe in One God in three Divine Persons but couldn't any polytheistic religion claim to be monotheistic using that argument (One God in 100 or more Divine Persons)?


What do you think?


 






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