What Happened to Civilized Society?

midnight-oil

Posts: 75

Maple...that is wonderful advice, albeit sometimes hard to live by!

Bob, thank you for deleting the offending posts. But you yourself would admit that this has had to happen all too frequent recently. What can be done to keep the *dis*respectful guests from coming back and doing it again? Because they will. I know it is possible to ban people from boards.

Michael

hamerhas

Posts: 1,075

Aug 7, 2009 -- 2:08PM, slu_magoo wrote:

So I'm perusing the CNN site a few minutes ago and came across a disturbing video of folks pushing, shoving, screaming, and chanting. (See video at politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/08/07...).

Unbelievable. It was supposed to be a town hall meeting where the Congresswoman could explain her position on health care and answer questions. These nutjobs in the audience wouldn't let her talk. They came for one purpose: to shout her down. This is going on all over the country. It happened to my own Congressman a couple a days ago at a town hall meeting in Little Rock.

What happened to civil discourse?

This is, imo, the result of people listening to fruitcakes rant and rave on the radio for the last decade. It's the result of fake news and blogs and so forth that tell people ignorance is a good thing, and being 'damn mad' is a good thing. This has been boiling for some time, and it need not be said what the natural progression of this anger will result in next.

We're seeing this same thing in our church and on this board, where some people have no hesitation in dehumanizing others. You have a handful of nutjobs in society and in the church agitating and deliberately trying to provoke a reaction (in the case of society, a violent one I fear) among followers. And like a bunch of mindless robots, the masses eat it up and do exactly what they're being programmed to do.

It's sad to see it all.

It is possible to disagree without resorting to this.

(I would follow with a rant about Southerners--of which I am one, so I can rant all I want--and how they've ruined the country, but I won't go there today.)

When an individual becomes aware they are being manuvered into a position to be violated in a most brutal fashion, loud objection is quite a normal response.

These meetings only become loud as question after qestion is either ignored, or

answered in non-sensical gibberish.

I notice you do not give even one example of a question asked and the response given.

How curious.

Why not discuss the question given:

"If the plan is so good, will congress make it their

plan as well?"

Lets disuss just ONE question given by the "nutjobs" and the very thoughtful response given
?

Or would you rather not?

Moderated by RJMcElwain on Aug 08, 2009 - 11:22AM

maplewood

Posts: 4,511

Aug 8, 2009 -- 10:02AM, midnight-oil wrote:

Maple...that is wonderful advice, albeit sometimes hard to live by!

Bob, thank you for deleting the offending posts. But you yourself would admit that this has had to happen all too frequent recently. What can be done to keep the *dis*respectful guests from coming back and doing it again? Because they will. I know it is possible to ban people from boards.

Michael

I like the fact that this is not exactly like the town hall brawl we saw, but the trolls can be ignored, rendering them voiceless. That, and deleted by the forum PTB.

I wonder if that is precisely what we need in the greater discourse, which is a commitment to civility, like King or Gandhi were committed to non-violence?

In a real way, civility and common, garden-variety courtesy is a form of non-violence, particularly when it refuses to be shouted down and will not go away.

I offer this as a potential solution for the greater issue that Slu brought up. That, and shining a flashlight onto the behavior the CNN tape displayed.

Hmm..."militant civility". Any thoughts?

Bevo

Posts: 561

www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/...

The health care reform legislation working its way through Congress has lost support over the past month. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 44% of U.S. voters are at least somewhat in favor of the reform effort while 53% are at least somewhat opposed.

Today's 44% level of support is down from 46% two weeks ago, and 50% in late June.

Opposition has grown from 45% in late June to 49% two weeks ago and 53% today.

As in earlier surveys, those with strong opinions are more likely to oppose the plan rather than support it. The current numbers: 24% strongly favor and 37% strongly oppose.

ToujoursDan

Posts: 1,065

As a Canadian I see comments about Obama's detention camps and screams of "Stalinism" "socialism" and ACORN being a liberal group (though McCain and the Republican Party used it extensively too) and have to wonder if this kind of paranoid, wingnut thinking prevails if America has a future.

It's like we live in alternate universes. I am completely baffled.

Roodog

Posts: 9,796

Aug 8, 2009 -- 3:55PM, ToujoursDan wrote:

As a Canadian I see comments about Obama's detention camps and screams of "Stalinism" "socialism" and ACORN being a liberal group (though McCain and the Republican Party used it extensively too) and have to wonder if this kind of paranoid, wingnut thinking prevails if America has a future.

It's like we live in alternate universes. I am completely baffled.

I was being sarcastic about Bevo blabbing about State secrets. I remember the libs expressing grave concen about Bush's "fascism". It's like if the conservatives are fascists and the liberals are communists. Welcome to the Eastern Front.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9

RJMcElwain

Posts: 2,687

Aug 8, 2009 -- 3:59PM, Roodog wrote:

................................... I remember the libs expressing grave concern about Bush's "fascism". It's like if the conservatives are fascists and the liberals are communists. Welcome to the Eastern Front.

And then, there are the 80% of us that reside somewhere between the extremes do.

Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato

Dutch777

Posts: 8,711

Roo:

Frankly, in my conversations with others, I've never heard anyone refer to a conservative as a fascist or a liberal as a Stalinist. Of course, the people I normally engage in conversation have an I.Q. above room-temperature and habitually walk upright.

Walk Your Own DharmaPath; be awake.

The Socratic Standard: Follow the evidence;____ if it doesn't make sense, it's bull$#!+.

Dutch

ToujoursDan

Posts: 1,065

Roo:

I should have been clearer. I was making a general point.

When I turn on American TV and look at CNN, Fox or MSNBC I see angry, hysterical people: pundits, commentators, analysts and regular citizens. These people are mostly affluent or middle class white people who spend more on dinner than most of the world makes in a month. These people live in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, NYC and DC in living conditions most of the world dreams they could exist in.

But these people live in a state of perpetual rage. They are angry at something: secularism, liberalism, Obama, desectating a flag, teh evil Mooslems, evolution in the classroom, the Mexican menace, gay marriage or the government. There is just so much seething anger on American TV that I don't see on the BBC, CBC/Radio-Canada, France2, the Australian Broadcasting Corp., TVNZ or any other nation's programming I regularly watch on satellite TV or over the internet.

Don't people get tired of being enraged, outraged or offended? Don't people get tired of living in a society where everyone is on a hair trigger? Don't people get tired of the over-the-top hysterical language that poisons any social or political debate? Don't they get tired of rage looking for a raison d'être? When are people just going to say "enough already"?

I just can't watch U.S. TV or read most American blogs anymore. It's exhausts me spiritually and emotionally.

slu_magoo

Posts: 976

For the record --

In the first post, I referred to the angry mob and the talk show hosts as 'nutjobs'. I also referred to those who listen to talk radio and follow its commands as 'mindless robots'.

I did not at any time call normal, law-abiding, intelligent conservatives any names. I think it is important to make that distinction. We have many terrific conservative people who post here and who carry on good, reasonable discussions.

With regard to the health care plan, I myself disagree with what has been proposed. I much prefer a single payer system.

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