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Switch to Forum Live View Rainbow Oneness Pentecostals?
8 years ago  ::  Jul 22, 2009 - 5:20PM #1
rideronthastorm
Posts: 9,223

Ive found 2 Rainbow (which means inclusive of GLBT)Oneness Pentecostal churches in Dallas. At first I was impressed and even considered visiting them.But after looking at the websight, I realize they stick strictly to the Jesus name only Baptism in order to get saved and all Christians get to speak in tongues doctrines. In short by keeping these standards even in a rainbow church your spreading hate by excluding every other Christian denomination outside your own. Can I just ask a question here? How can this church claim to be inclusive of GLBTs and at the same time be exclusive of every other Christian denomination?

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8 years ago  ::  Jul 28, 2009 - 2:29PM #2
Theo
Posts: 4,716

Its a mystery - you just gotta believe them.

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8 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2009 - 1:34AM #3
Onegod1
Posts: 20

Though it's definately not my desire to "hog" all the space at the Apostolic Pentecostal blog, I found this particular blog quite interesting.


Obviously you are not a "Rainbow Apostolic," for if you had been, you would be familiar with the Acts 2:38 salvation message. (repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name, and the baptism in the Holy Ghost, with the initial sign of speaking in other tongues).


It's magnificient that you are a "Rainbow Spiritual!"  I did do some investigating and found that you are a Unitarian Universalist.  In several instances, individuals refer to Oneness Pentecostals as "Unitarian Pentecostals," since we are non-trinitarians also.  Actually, that's one of the silliest things I've ever heard in my life!  There is One God...but yet this One God is Three People...but yet these Three People are One Person....but yet One Person is really Three People, but yet these three People are really only One God....yak...yak...yak... It's also very insulting to me to hear of God referred to in the plural and the Scriptures NEVER contain a phrase that reads "God the Father...God the Son...God the Holy Ghost" (just the phraseology used denotes three gods!)


No disrespect is intended whatsoever in this post, so please don't interpret this blurb that way.  However, for instance, if I were to attend a Sunday servide at a Unitarian Universalist Association, it is highly doubtful that what I would experience would be an Apostolic Pentecostal service, complete with shouting, fast music, and speaking in tongues.


"Rainbow Apostolic" churches are just that -- Apostolic.  They are not Metropolitan Community Churches where every belief is both affirmed and "up for grabs".


I happen to be one of those "Rainbow Apostolics".  I am a Oneness Pentecostal preacher, and lead a "rainbow denomination"


A lesser Biblical call to holy living, or a lesser stance on Biblical absolutes, has not come because most members are homosexual -- but the same Lord that raises a standard, raises His standard with EVERYONE.


Bless You


First General Overseer, Rev. Elder Martin Wright,


World Fellowship Center of the Christian Pentecostal Church International


Detroit, Michigan, USA 48237

Rev. Elder Martin Wright
First General Overseer
Christian Pentecostal Church International

President & Faculty member
Christian Pentecostal Bible College

Senior Bishop
Christian Life Center Pentecostal Church

WORLD FELLOWSHIP CENTER of the
Christian Pentecostal Church International
Detroit, Michigan USA
48237
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8 years ago  ::  Sep 17, 2009 - 4:01PM #4
Onegod1
Posts: 20

It does seem like somewhat of an oxymoron, doesn't it?  Rainbow Oneness Pentecostals?  Though I am one of those "rainbow" Oneness Pentecostals, and lead a "rainbow" Oneness Pentecostal organization, it is a uphill struggle and a "hard sell" to pitch holiness Pentecostalism to GLBT individuals that have been repeatedly bashed and thrown to the spiritual dung-heap by "mainstream" Pentecostals.  Only a true Baptism in the Holy Ghost can wipe away this fear and distrust!


As an ordained Minister, I and the church I pastored at the time were disfellowshipped from a "rainbow Apostolic group" because I was "too staunch" upon issues of personal holiness, and "pushed Pentecost" too strongly.  Hello?  Notwithstanding, the Lord blessed us with the largest congregation in that organization, we led the organization in Missions giving, and we financed the work of the organization several times.  That was okay.  But when we sang, shouted, jumped over pews, and lived separatly from the world, we were disfellowshipped.


We are rarely invited to "community-wide" events.  When we are, the individual's doing the inviting usually don't know who we are.  Never have we been asked to take part in "Pride Ecumenical Worship services."  We are openly made fun of before the GLBT community.  Several times, people have pretended to "speak in tongues", mocking the Holy Ghost, so they and their friends could have a laugh.  Our love of the Scriptures is made fun of, and we are criticized for standing so strongly upon certain Biblical principles.


Your beliefs (and I've been in these types of situations several times) are "crammed" down my throat (like the belief in three gods) while I am not allowed to say a word and let people make up their own minds. That's inclusive?


I thought inclusivity was the allowing, and affirmation, of folks the freedom of being themselves -- not sticking to a script that has been pre-determined.


"Inclusivity Avenue" is a two-way street.



Rev. Elder Martin Wright
First General Overseer
Christian Pentecostal Church International

President & Faculty member
Christian Pentecostal Bible College

Senior Bishop
Christian Life Center Pentecostal Church

WORLD FELLOWSHIP CENTER of the
Christian Pentecostal Church International
Detroit, Michigan USA
48237
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8 years ago  ::  Sep 23, 2009 - 7:03PM #5
rideronthastorm
Posts: 9,223

Your beliefs (and I've been in these types of situations several times) are "crammed" down my throat (like the belief in three gods) while I am not allowed to say a word and let people make up their own minds. That's inclusive?


 


I thought inclusivity was the allowing, and affirmation, of folks the freedom of being themselves -- not sticking to a script that has been pre-determined.


 


"Inclusivity Avenue" is a two-way street


I apologize you dont know me. Im Rider, I am an EXUPC member. I was in the dallas UPC church for 9 years, its been 9 years sense Ive been back. Its a long story and i cant go into all of it Ill just say this,I was in dress code church being female I had to wear long hair no cutting it long dresses all the time no jewlry no makeup, I threw away a large very expensive record collection of rocknroll because my church convinced me it was of the devil, tv was restricted from me, lots of stuff the list goes on and on. Over the course of 9 years I really visited and changed Pentecostal churches several times. I did have1 guy friend who dropped out of the UPC church who was raised UPC and quit because he was Gay and i use to have a crush on him.



I was rescued more or less,BTW many churches had differences in Holliness standards and I was exposed to more then one kind some were so strict take Dallas Apostolic, they are so strict that they not only refuse to cut the hair but the last time I went to Brother Cauldrens church we had to wear our hair up and back but couldnt perm or curl it or tease it because Brother Cauldren said it was too sexy;


 We had to wear plain nude hose because anything else was too sexy, long sleeves and closed toed shoes otherwise it was too sexy, listened only to light Christian Pop, or classical music or Christian Gospel or Christian coutry Gospel because Christian rock and Christian rap and some Christian pop was too erotic! NO TV whatsoever, so it just depended on the church what the standards were.


Sorry you dont know me i came to Beliefnet 7 years back, I had a rough time of adjusting to not being in the UPC church. I had fights and attacks on Christianity Christian debate


at one time they had Pentecostal debate and I hung around there, I became psychotic in my fight and was asked to leave 4 to 5 years ago by some groups here aat beliefnet, i ot counseling and havnt had a psycho tempertantrum or been in trouble here at beliefnet for 3 or 4 years AHH!!!!!!!I MISS THE DAYS WHEN ALL THE UPCers KNEW ME AS THE PSYCHO NUT I WAS FAMOUS FOR THAT< IVE BEEN SANE TOO LONG.


Im about to visit a Asatru group so im definitly going Pagan! No use in trying to convert me ill tell you more about my story lata!!!!!


Thanks for responding its nice to meet you, even though I dont agree with UPC anymore, after all the sexual repression of women I experienced in the UPC church it is nice to hear at leaste some of you guys have broken away from sexual repression! Thanks, Elizabeth


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8 years ago  ::  Sep 23, 2009 - 9:23PM #6
Onegod1
Posts: 20

Hi Rider! (Elizabeth) Good to meet you, also!  I do have a good one that I know I'm "safe" enough to share with you.  At the time (about 20yrs ago) I was a choir director at a Charismatic church that was largely GLBT.  "My" choir had been invited to sing a couple songs at an AIDS Memorial Service, along with other choirs in the city that had special ministrys to the GLBT community.  At the time, I didn't know any better, but I REQUIRED all the women in the choir to wear white blouses with navy blue or black (below the knee) skirts while we sang (the guys wore white shirts and navy blue or black slacks with a navy blue or black tie)!  I mean, was THAT UPC or what? Undecided  The Lord allowed me to make an observation, though.  For the sake of unity and presenting a positive image, etc., the women were "troopers" and wore the required skirts.  But throughout the service, I knew that it was quite unnatural for several of the women to be adorned in that manner.  The music ministry the Lord gave me to help propagate His gospel was well known around the country and in that particular organization -- and the choir many times after that were invited to sing at other churches, conferences, revivals, etc., but NEVER AGAIN did I require the women to wear skirts.  If some did -- fine.  But for some Sisters - - wearing a skirt is quite unnatural.  Is the choir presentable as they sing unto the Lord before an assembled congregation?  Ok then! Smile


 


Another point of contention for me is the assumption that people have regarding all Apostolics as being United Pentecostals.  No -- all Apostolics are NOT United Pentecostals, and most are not as "strict" as the United Pentecostal Church.  There are right around 40-million Apostolics worldwide, but yet the United Pentecostal Church claims a membership just under 5-million.  That means there are 35-million Apostolics that do not claim a United Pentecostal Church as their place of worship!Surprised


Anyway, not my intent to get into a theological discussion, but thought I'd send off a "HELLO" to you.  Take Care -- and let's argue the heck out of everybody and everything!



Rev. Elder Martin Wright
First General Overseer
Christian Pentecostal Church International

President & Faculty member
Christian Pentecostal Bible College

Senior Bishop
Christian Life Center Pentecostal Church

WORLD FELLOWSHIP CENTER of the
Christian Pentecostal Church International
Detroit, Michigan USA
48237
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7 years ago  ::  Jul 09, 2010 - 4:25PM #7
Thx4grace
Posts: 1

Jul 22, 2009 -- 5:20PM, rideronthastorm wrote:


Ive found 2 Rainbow (which means inclusive of GLBT)Oneness Pentecostal churches in Dallas. At first I was impressed and even considered visiting them.But after looking at the websight, I realize they stick strictly to the Jesus name only Baptism in order to get saved and all Christians get to speak in tongues doctrines. In short by keeping these standards even in a rainbow church your spreading hate by excluding every other Christian denomination outside your own. Can I just ask a question here? How can this church claim to be inclusive of GLBTs and at the same time be exclusive of every other Christian denomination?





Holding to a specific doctrine isn't spreading hate.  Jesus Name baptism is the only baptism that can be found in the book of Acts. It's also the only mode used by the early church.  I don't believe baptism is essential to salvation since we are saved by grace..but there is NO OTHER name.

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7 years ago  ::  Jul 09, 2010 - 6:05PM #8
rideronthastorm
Posts: 9,223

No i agree it doesnt nessarily mean hate towards other Christian groups or even exclusiveness. However trying to find out what exactly the church teaches on who can go to heaven and who cant can be sticky, I did deliberately question the paster of a GLBT opena d accepting church out here in Dallas on do you beleive the other denominations go to heaven as well. I get " UH Uh well there are Christians in other churches I guess I dont know untill i get to heaven,: not exacftly those words but really kind of not knowing what to say to me, kind of response.I believe if he really believed in his hearts other denominations are goign to heaven hed come out and say instead if defending oneness all over the place.


FYI BTW why does the church point out the fact that they believe in Jesus only Baptism instead of Father Son and Holy Ghost? Lets just say I agree with you for arguments sake, why not just Baptize that way and leave it alone: Why preach on it and focus on it and point it out why does the websight need to point that out? i mean Trinitarians dont go around preaching aBOut the fact that they baptize in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost instead of Jesus name and their way is rights thats silly!


Dont you think its a tecnicality, if theres power in the name of Jesus you should be able to feel that power everytime you use the name of Jesus and give him praise regardless of how you get baptized!


If thats the only name you can be saved by then you should be able to call on his name and ask him to save you and get saved thru his name that way.

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7 years ago  ::  Jul 11, 2010 - 3:07PM #9
Theo
Posts: 4,716

Rider... competition is the way of the world, it is human nature. And the reason Oneness Pentecostals and Churches over-emphasize their more distinctive doctrines is to promote their form of Christianity, and to keep the people they already have married to their churches. Of course many will disagree with my assessment but that is the way I see things, and this holds equally true for every group that believes things outside of the mainstream Christian Faith.


Every religious group that has a set of distinctive doctrines that sets them apart from the rest, uses their distinctive beliefs as an ax to grind against Christians who are part of more traditional Churches with more traditional beliefs. When I was a Oneness Pentecostal we used to go "witnessing" to the local Airport and to the Seattle Center, and whenever we met a fellow Christian, our tactic was to question them about three doctrines... have you received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues? Have you been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins? And, do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Almighty God manifested in the flesh - or do you still believe Jesus is one third of the Godhead?


And we were prepared to argue these points persuasively for the direct purpose of changing their minds and winning them over to "the truth." And while I was part of a group that did not question the "salvation status" of Trinitarian Christians, especially if they were Pentecostals, it was our purpose to win them over to the Oneness of God and get them rebaptized in Jesus name. An argument some Oneness folk use to persuade Trinitarians over to their way of believing is to allude or insist that they are not saved yet because they either do not speak in tongues or they have yet to be baptized for the remission of sins - because they were baptized according to Matt 28:19.


 


Baptists do the same thing when "witnessing" to Catholics. Jehovah's Witnesses do the same thing when "witnessing" to Catholics and other Christians. Mormons do the same thing when advocating the religion of Joseph Smith... its simply the way it works. If your purpose is to persuade other Christians over to your way of thinking, its is of little value to dwell upon areas of unity and agreement.  


 As you know, I've spent a good deal of time on other debate boards, on the Mormon, Evangelical Christian and Jehovah's Witness boards. And in most cases my purpose is to argue the merits of traditional Christian beliefs against their respective distinctive beliefs. And thus my purpose is similar to when I was a Pentecostal - to win other believers over to what I believe to be the correct understanding of God and Christ and Christianity. This endeavor is called "Apologetics" and that is what I do, I defend and advance the Biblical Christian faith using Scripture and persuasive argument for the betterment of my fellow believer and Christians. And I see this as a service to God, not as a means of winning brownie points, but as a means of edifying the saints.


 ~ Theophilus

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7 years ago  ::  Jul 12, 2010 - 11:07AM #10
rideronthastorm
Posts: 9,223

Sure but you just agve a perfect escription of one the reasons I had to get away from UPC, mental insanity.All that arguing and competition yep it drives some of us nutty nuts.


 


Also again I say I asked the question if they believe other Christians are going to heaven and didnt get a straight answer many times this group really believes their the only ones or they arent clear on what they believe as far as that goes, apparently this group isnt clear, I believe its wrong. I think they should not condem other churches to hell, and if there not clear on what they believe then theyre confused. To me it seemed like he didnt believe other Christians were going to heaven to me thats not competition its pure hate sorry.

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