Important Announcement

See here for an important message regarding the community which has become a read-only site as of October 31.

 
Post Reply
Page 2 of 2  •  Prev 1 2
Switch to Forum Live View Psychology in the Church??
8 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2009 - 4:27PM #11
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Thanks for the respectful and concise answer. Perhaps a chat would do the trick, it's best when the kid brings it up.


BTW I have an element of distrust of Psychology,especially when it's being used on kids.


 I had brought up Dobson as an example of Psychology being used in my tradition, not as an endorsement. Every Church has their experts in this field.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
Quick Reply
Cancel
8 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2009 - 4:34PM #12
GRobit625
Posts: 2,006

No problem. I just don't see how anyone of any faith can defend Dobson's method much less admit they tried it out.

Quick Reply
Cancel
8 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2009 - 10:39AM #13
SeraphimR
Posts: 12,687

Jul 20, 2009 -- 12:50PM, slu_magoo wrote:


Roo --


The book is called 'Bringing Up Boys'.  It's available at your local nutjob bookstore.  Mr. Dobson says that fathers can prevent their sons from becoming homosexuals by engaging them in rough-and-tumble activities and by taking his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis, just like his, only bigger.


And no, Seraphim, despite your immature defense of Mr. Dobson, there's a world of difference between 1) deliberately exposing oneself to a child to prevent the child from being a homosexual and 2) taking your child to a swim club for the purpose of swimming.  Hopefully one day you'll know the difference, will mature, and will be able to carry on a conversation without your typical uninformed sarcasm.




What was so immature about it?


In any case, don't hold your breath.  I will probably make immature, uninformed, and sarcastic remarks with my last breathes.

“So long as there is squalor in the world, those obsessed with social justice feel obliged not only to live in it themselves but also to spread it evenly.”

http://takimag.com/article/the_ugly_truth_theodore_dalrymple
Quick Reply
Cancel
8 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2009 - 11:59AM #14
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Question:


Should dad help with the care of small children( boys especially) as they are potty trained and they learn to bathe and other private matters. Having no kids myself, I am kind of out the loop on this one. I did have nephews and nieces and I had to dry them off after they took their baths.


 

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
Quick Reply
Cancel
8 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2009 - 1:58PM #15
slu_magoo
Posts: 1,008

Jul 20, 2009 -- 4:14PM, Roodog wrote:


A respectful question on this matter:


If the dads is not supposed to teach their sons to deal with the nudity that they would encounter in the locker room and the military, then who is?


Is there a more appropriate way to handle this situation?




You are missing the point entirely.


Of course, as boys swim, go the gym, change clothes, etc., they're going to see other peoples' business.  That's the way life goes.  That's perfectly normal.


What Mr. Dobson promotes is a father deliberately (not incidentally, as in the case of the gym) exposing himself to his son for the express purpose of preventing the son from being a homosexual.


You seem to be missing the parts I've put in bold.  You're focusing on dealing with nudity and teaching boys to wee-wee and such.  That's not the point.  The point I raised--and that you and Seraphim seem to be intentionally overlooking--is Mr. Dobson's view that deliberately exposing oneself to one's son is a legitimate homosexuality prevention technique.  That's the topic.  That's what I was pointing out in my post.


That's not psychology.  It's the ramblings of a sad, sick old man.

Quick Reply
Cancel
8 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2009 - 5:05PM #16
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Slu,


I can understand that you would object to the deliberate exposure by dads. A chat would most probabably do the trick. 


Am I getting signals that you are also objecting to "prevention" as well? There are many, myself included, who believe that this lifestyle is more  based on nurture(or lack thereof) rather than nature. The explanation to this situation is psychologial rather than physiological. If it's based on nurture, then it can be prevented through proper upbringing.


I had written before that the citation of Dr. Dobson was not neccessarily an endorsement but an example of the use of Psychology in the Evangelical tradition. Mainline Protestants and Catholics also have their experts in this discipline.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
Quick Reply
Cancel
8 years ago  ::  Aug 03, 2009 - 12:03PM #17
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

When Dr Dobson was getting his degree back in the bad ol' days, homosexuality was considered a mental illness. I wonder if that weighs in on Dr. Dobson's outlook. It has only been in the last twenty or thirty years that this life style was taken off the mental illness list.


Speaking of Psychology being used to avoid being held responsible for culpable behavior I was speaking of the insanity pleas used in felony cases such as murder.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
Quick Reply
Cancel
8 years ago  ::  Aug 03, 2009 - 4:28PM #18
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Aug 3, 2009 -- 2:04PM, jeanette1 wrote:


Roo you are right about when he got his degree but are they not supposed to update themselves? Like keep up with the world around them. My son is a mechanic if he were not to continually keep up and go to the classes as needed he won't be able to work on the new cars and then guess what? He can no longer be a qualified mechanic because he doesn't know or understand the changes that have been made.


As far as psycology being used in the courts ,well I see no use in commenting as it really has nothing to do with the Church.




In the original post the statement on Culpability was meant mainly as applying to the legal system. Psychology has become somewhat a secular religion in American society and has influenced the way we deal with criminal and immoral behavior. Such actions are no longer seen as "sinful" but as a mental disorder.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
Quick Reply
Cancel
8 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2009 - 12:47PM #19
withfearandtrembling
Posts: 138

"It has been scientifically proven that there is a "gay" gene......"


Uhh...actually, it has not.  Homosexuality, like personality, is probably about 50% attributable to genetics and 50% to environment. But no "gay gene" has actually been scientifically proven and isolated. As no one is born actually having sex with someone else, or even being sexually attracted to someone else, and sex itself is an action, speaking of being "born gay" is problematic. People are born with certain tendancies of personality, but there is also a range of environmental influence and personal choice involved. I may have been born with a stubborn streak, but I do not have a "stubborn gene." My environment may make me more or less stubborn, and I may choose how I exercise and express (or repress) my stuborness.  


As for Dobson--How an older male deliberatly exposing himself to a younger male would prevent homosexuality I don't know... One would think it would either have no effect or the opposite effect. But I read Bringing Up Boys (a book I'm not a fan of), and I don't recall that suggestion. Could you quote word for word what he actually says? 

Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2011 - 1:21PM #20
SquirleyWurley
Posts: 1,970

Psychological observation and speculation is one thing, but interpretation is another.  Then there's application.


With feminists and gay activists, I find it interesting the opposite interpretations and applications of psychology.  Whatever differences there may be between men and women are said to be environmental, hence women's rights, orientation differences are said to be genetic or 'born' not chosen, hence gay rights.  By women's rights logic, homosexuality might be seen as environmental and hence maybe we really should try to get gay men to appreciate women better by re-educating them.  By gay rights logic women should be tolerated because they were 'born that way', you know, different from men.

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 2 of 2  •  Prev 1 2
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook