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Switch to Forum Live View The Bishop and Chastity
6 years ago  ::  May 10, 2009 - 7:11PM #1
Mareczku
Posts: 2,220

I was reading about the President of Paraguay.  He is a former Catholic bishop.  He had to give up his episcopal seat to become President of the country.  I read that the Vatican released him from his vow of chastity.  I don't understand why he still does not have to lead a chaste life since he was ordained.  Since he is single one would think that he should still try to be chaste.  However, he most certainly was not chaste as a bishop as he has a son with a 26 year old woman with whom he has had a relationship with since she was 16.  He may also have 2 other children.  I find this to be quite confusing.  I suppose I find it annoying because so many bishops act so holier than thou and when we find out what actually goes on behind the scenes it is not pretty. 


 


Peace - Mareczku 

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6 years ago  ::  May 10, 2009 - 7:28PM #2
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277

What is confusing?  Priests have diddled children for YEARS.  It's ok because there are no abortions involved.


No confusion there... just HUGE piles of hypocrisy.

James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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6 years ago  ::  May 10, 2009 - 11:31PM #3
catalunya70
Posts: 693

And so have a countless number of school teachers  who have abused children.  That does not stop parents from sending their children to school,  does it?  These cases actually outnumber those committed by priests.  In both instances,  these men were sickos prior to becoming priests and teachers.


Catalunya


 

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6 years ago  ::  May 11, 2009 - 3:24PM #4
Dutch777
Posts: 9,136

May 10, 2009 -- 11:31PM, catalunya70 wrote:


And so have a countless number of school teachers  who have abused children. 


The difference is that the school superintendants don't cover up teachers' sex abuse cases, nor does the Secretary of Education instruct the subaltern levels of administration to hide the sex abuse cases until the statute of limitations has expired.


Compare this with the track record of the Cardinal Ratzinger and the bishops.


 


 That does not stop parents from sending their children to school,  does it?


No, with-holding a child from school is illegal.  Keeping one's kids away from  church isn't illegal.


 


  These cases actually outnumber those committed by priests. 


Really?  Do you know this for a fact?  If so; how so.


 In both instances,  these men were sickos prior to becoming priests and teachers.


Catalunya


 




Don't forget the females.  Women teachers have letched their young male students too.

The Path
To Moon Lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own Dharma*Path
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Mindful

Dutch
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6 years ago  ::  May 11, 2009 - 6:21PM #5
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277

May 11, 2009 -- 3:24PM, Dutch777 wrote:


May 10, 2009 -- 11:31PM, catalunya70 wrote:


And so have a countless number of school teachers  who have abused children.


The difference is that the school superintendants don't cover up teachers' sex abuse cases, nor does the Secretary of Education instruct the subaltern levels of administration to hide the sex abuse cases until the statute of limitations has expired.


Compare this with the track record of the Cardinal Ratzinger and the bishops.


 


 That does not stop parents from sending their children to school,  does it?


No, with-holding a child from school is illegal.  Keeping one's kids away from  church isn't illegal.


 


  These cases actually outnumber those committed by priests.


Really?  Do you know this for a fact?  If so; how so.


 In both instances,  these men were sickos prior to becoming priests and teachers.


Catalunya


 




Don't forget the females.  Women teachers have letched their young male students too.




 


But school officials don't CROW about THEIR holiness.  School officials don't say to adults.. "Do as I say, not as I do"...


School officials don't HIDE rapists and promote them.


School teachers don't take VOWS OF CELIBACY.


 

James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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6 years ago  ::  May 11, 2009 - 6:59PM #6
Dutch777
Posts: 9,136

TMarie:


You may have mis-read my post.  I agree with your thought.


I stated that school superintendants and the Sec. of Ed. do not instruct their subalterns to hide sexual abuse as do RCC bps..


I further agree that bps., who hold themselves forth as exemplars of the holy life and who claim to be the successors of the Apostles must be beyond reproach; they have certainly conducted otherwise.

The Path
To Moon Lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own Dharma*Path
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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6 years ago  ::  May 11, 2009 - 7:27PM #7
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277

Sorry, Dutch!!  I meant my comments for catalunya.   The comparison of teachers to priests was just so absurd I quoted the wrong one.

James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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6 years ago  ::  May 11, 2009 - 7:29PM #8
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277

May 10, 2009 -- 11:31PM, catalunya70 wrote:


And so have a countless number of school teachers  who have abused children.  That does not stop parents from sending their children to school,  does it?  These cases actually outnumber those committed by priests.  In both instances,  these men were sickos prior to becoming priests and teachers.


Catalunya


 




How many teachers have been promoted and transferred to give them fresh meat to rape?  How many teachers have been allowed to retire in comfort with their school systems paying for their housing, food, and healthcare?


How many teachers have raped for YEARS?  How many teacher unions/organizations REFUSED to turn rapist teachers over for prosecution?


 

James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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6 years ago  ::  May 18, 2009 - 10:57PM #9
angpuppy
Posts: 520

May 10, 2009 -- 7:11PM, Mareczku wrote:


I was reading about the President of Paraguay.  He is a former Catholic bishop.  He had to give up his episcopal seat to become President of the country.  I read that the Vatican released him from his vow of chastity.  I don't understand why he still does not have to lead a chaste life since he was ordained.  Since he is single one would think that he should still try to be chaste.  However, he most certainly was not chaste as a bishop as he has a son with a 26 year old woman with whom he has had a relationship with since she was 16.  He may also have 2 other children.  I find this to be quite confusing.  I suppose I find it annoying because so many bishops act so holier than thou and when we find out what actually goes on behind the scenes it is not pretty. 


 


Peace - Mareczku 




First off, when the news covers the Catholic Church, they tend to get things wrong.  For instance, ABC recently did a peice on the Theology of the Body and Christopher West.  I've listened to him talk and they portrayed Christopher West's position rather differently than what his message is, not to mention they couldn't get the name "Theology of the Body" straight as they kept saying "and the body" and even referred to as as Christopher West's Theology of the Body when its really JP II's Theology of the Body.  Suddenly they take a quote out of context and turn it into an implication that "great sex" leads to closer intimacy with God which is completely NOT the message!  But whatever.  Granted he should have been more careful with his words.


In regards to the bishop, all are called to live chaste lives according to their state in life: even the married.  So certainly the bishop has not been released from the demands to live a chaste life. 


The issue is that a bishop or a priest cannot hold a political office.  He requested to be layasized (I'm misspelling the word), but it was refused.  He went for political office anyway, so the Vatican had to "accept his resignition" but even if he hadn't sought to resign, the prudent thing to do would have been to remove him as bishop and forbid him from administering the sacraments.  It was already an act of disobedience to the Church to run for a political office, therefore I find it no surprise that he would have also already been disobedient in regards to chastity.


As for holier than thou, we need to recognize that we all suffer with concupsicence.  It is spiritual pride to believe that we are incapable of any sin, that we don't need to guard ourselves away from sin.  Honestly, its a very humbling thing to fall into a sin you never thought you'd ever commit.  It is never that any priest or saint is incapable of sin.  It is rather that the Christian path is one of constant repentence.  It is not for us to judge someone for falling into a sin.  However it is our place to call on people who ignore their sin, rationalize their sin and fail to call sin sin.  Granted we should do so prudently.  It is not our place to keep hounding the same people who've heard and rejected the message to infinitity.  Admonishing the sinner is a careful thing.  I remind myself that I know my own faults and judgments that can hinder my ability to do this as prudently as I'd like, but I also find in that realization to accept the best of myself that I can and to seek forgiveness of my sinfulness, rather than to avoid it all together so that I can ignore that I struggle with judgmentalism.   In fact, one of the seven spiritual works of mercy is to admonish sinners.


My fiance' was recently reading St. Thomas More's Utopea to me.  We found this passage very humorous for it reflects what most people wish to do when they look at morality:


"'We'll never get human behavior in line with Christian ethics,' these gentlemen must have argued, 'so let's adapt Christian ethics to human behavior. then at least there'll be some connexion between them.'" -- Utopia


I guess my point is that I don't see why scandals in the Church should surprise us.  Priests and bishops are not by virtue of their office saints.  There are many priests and religious who were saints, but typically they dealt with many priests and religious who were corrupt.  We ought to pray for our leaders and realize that Christ guides through His Church and is capable of even using the most ruthless of sinners to do His will.

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6 years ago  ::  May 18, 2009 - 11:06PM #10
angpuppy
Posts: 520

I would like to add that I don't believe bishops necessarily tout their holiness.  I think the impression we all get as children, and rightfully so, that those who make such a choice to dedicate their lives to such remarkable service of God, ought to be great examples of holiness to the people.  And the fact of the matter is that many fail in this regard.


I think a bigger question people are asking is whether the celebate life is a path toward greater holiness, but that's another question all together.  I would say that looking though at the number of saints who were religious or clerics, it is definitely a path to holiness.  But it is a path one must actively take advantage of. 

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