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6 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2009 - 10:25PM #31
Future Catholic Priest
Posts: 108

Peter:                                                                                                                                                            


  I have found in my Bibles that talk about "Melchizedek". It first mentions his name in Hebrews 5:6, but you might want to read the verses above, beforehand. In one Bible version that I like to use (NIV; a Protestant Bible version) says that Melchizedek was a priest and king of early Salem (now called Jerusalem) and Jesus was said to be a priest like him. In the Catholic Bible that I have talks more about "Mel" in Hebrews 7. The title of chapter 7 it is called "Melchizedek, a Type of Christ". However in the Protestant Bible it is just called "Melchizedek the Priest" and later a sub-title for the second half of the chapter which is called, "Jesus Like Melchizedek".  Now back to the Catholic Bible, it talks about how Mel's name is used in the Mass during the Eucharist: (from the Sacramentary) "Look with favor on these offerings and accept them as once you accepted the gifts of your servant Abel, the sacrifice of Abraham, our father in faith, and the bread and wine offered by your priest Melchizedek." The Masses I go to never has this line so my guess is that it was omitted during the Mass revisions that came from Vatican II in the 1960's. The quote I written above is from the first Eucharistic prayer in the Catholic Mass. In the book of Genesis, after Abraham had successfully conquered the enemies of his nephew, Lot;Melchizedek offers a sacrifice of bread and wine to God on Abraham's behalf (Genesis 14:17-20). Due to this, Mel becomes Abe's priest. Early Christians saw parallels to Jesus in the story of Mel and that Mel's name means "king of righteousness." Thus Mel's life came to be viewed as an early but incomplete example of Jesus' high priesthood.


Today the Catholic priesthood reenacts the offering of bread and wine to God like Mel, BUT, it is done in the remembrance's of Our Savior Brother's sacrifice on the cross as He had His Last Supper with His disciples during the Passover holiday where bread and wine has some importance. Jesus offered the bread and wine to His Father and said that it was His Body and Blood and "do this in remembrance of Me." So I guess your right, the Catholic priest is like Mel who offers the bread and wine to Yash'wa-Jesus Christ to bless it as it represents Him.   Mel's offering was like Communion but not exactly. Jesus-Yash'wa is indeed the High Priest. Mel was never a high priest nor any of the Catholic clergy (including the pope) are called a high priest because that is Christ's title and His alone!


I hope this helps and clears up any confusion. BTW the Catholic priesthood works for Christ's high priesthood. It is like in the Old Testament; there was one high priest and many regular priests. So Christ is the high priest and there are regular priests who serve Him. That's how it parallels the ancient Jewish traditions of leadership and clergy when Christ was on earth.  

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2009 - 11:21PM #32
Peter_d_roman
Posts: 5,999

thanks for that most excellent research f/p.


 


peace and good and tons o'love


 


 


>o


 


 

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2009 - 11:36PM #33
Peter_d_roman
Posts: 5,999

Apr 24, 2009 -- 6:54PM, angpuppy wrote:


Apr 17, 2009 -- 8:15AM, Peter_d_roman wrote:


it may sound nice to your ear- but Our Savior Brother s Tongue was Aramaic NOT pagan latin.



Funny, I didn't realize that Ancient Israel was so much like America where people only spoke one language.  Latin is a language.  Pagan religions have nothing to do with it.  Latin has been the official language of the Church for centuries.  Granted that is not to say I do not appreciate other rites of the Church.  I attended a Marionite Liturgy a couple of times and the consecration was done in Aramaic.  It was wonderful hearing it in the words we suppose Christ would have spoken it in.


  that are old are not by there age bad- but things that are FALSE stay false until the underlying error is corrected. your words go back 1700 years or so- the Truth in mine go back 2009 years.



I'm not sure how long the Church has been speaking Latin.  I do know that in the TLM, there are still Greek eliments in it from the previous liturgies that existed before the TLM.  I'm also not in rejection of the English Mass, except when people treat it as a throwing out of the old and recreating the wheel. 


There is also nothing false about the Dogma of the Trinity.  Jesus is God the Son.  We have been told to baptise people in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit since the beginning, though the theology surrounding the nature of God and the three persons and the nature of Christ took time to develop.


The doctrines and the dogmas of the Church are like a tree.  You've gone searching for the root, figuring that the tree is a weed and in the end have not come up with the root of the faith.  It seems rather you've found an ancient dead weed and deciding to paint a picture of how you believe the weed would have looked and how it would have developed as the "true faith" if the tree (which you consider a weed) hadn't gotten in its way.  Truly, do you think that God would keep the truth so hidden from humanity?  Would He fail to protect His Church from error?




 


sadly both Our Father allowed His Temple to be corrupted by worldly power serving pharisees and sadducees and temple priests to " turn His House into a den of thieves" ; and Our Brother may have watched as the roman church in His Name ripped out the toungs and finger nails of  jews and accused witches countless times and for many years.


 


but now that i think of it Both Our Father and Our Brother left both the temple and the church  long before those false servants proved there evil souls in those evil  works.


 


im going to write about john the baptizer this weekend- you may find it thought provoking to read.


 


>o


 


 

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2009 - 1:33PM #34
angpuppy
Posts: 520

Jesus always said to do as the Pharisee's said not as they do.  He never said ignore them, reject them.  In fact He reached out to the Jews first as theyw ere the chosen people.


Obviously the criticisms given to the religious authorities are warnings for us today.  We do have issues with the Church, how it is run.  But what it has taught, just as what was taught to the Jews prior to Jesus' arrival (and I mean officially) was true.  Jesus never denied that the Jews were the chosen people.  He never denied the positions that existed.  The whole den of theifs thing was because the way offerings were being made became more of a system without focusing on what ought to be taking place in the heart.  It wasn't simply about kiling the animal, as it was about making an offering, and that meaning had been lost.


The saints have always been for reform of the Church, or a revitalization of the faith, but they have never, not even St. Francis, denied the rightful authority of Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition or even the papacy. 


Thus yes I know the errors of the Church.  I see the constant errors in my parish, the ineffectiveness of our CCD programs, the lack of focus on adult formation, the shuffling people through the sacraments without getting to the heart of the faith.  The sheepishness about actually proclaiming the gospel for fear people might reject it rather than allowing the Word of God (Christ) to act as a two edged sword.


I'm Catholic though because I am here to follow Christ.  I'm here to receive the Eucharist and the 7 sacraments and if anything the Church had done right.  I am obedient even when it means being run through the racks of unnecessary procedures because I know this is the authority Christ established.  I certainly will not refuse to go through what I need to go through to get married in the Catholic Church.  And if anything my hunger for the Traditional Latin Mass is because it is so reverant before God.  It draws me closer to Christ and deeper into prayer than a Novos Ordo does.  Its had thousands of years of perfecting.


Not saying a Novos Ordo can't be done right.  My fiance' has been to a number of very reverent novos Ordo Masses, but they're often done by communities that also do very good Latin Masses. 


"Whoever rejects you rejects me.  And whoever rejects Me rejects the one who sent me." Lk 10:16


I will not confuse the issue of any Church scandals as arguments against the teaching authority of the Church, nor the validity of the sacraments.  In my eyes, the issues are unrelated.

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2009 - 9:45PM #35
Peter_d_roman
Posts: 5,999

Apr 25, 2009 -- 1:33PM, angpuppy wrote:


Jesus always said to do as the Pharisee's said not as they do.  He never said ignore them, reject them.  In fact He reached out to the Jews first as theyw ere the chosen people.


Obviously the criticisms given to the religious authorities are warnings for us today.  We do have issues with the Church, how it is run.  But what it has taught, just as what was taught to the Jews prior to Jesus' arrival (and I mean officially) was true.  Jesus never denied that the Jews were the chosen people.  He never denied the positions that existed.  The whole den of theifs thing was because the way offerings were being made became more of a system without focusing on what ought to be taking place in the heart.  It wasn't simply about kiling the animal, as it was about making an offering, and that meaning had been lost.


The saints have always been for reform of the Church, or a revitalization of the faith, but they have never, not even St. Francis, denied the rightful authority of Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition or even the papacy. 


Thus yes I know the errors of the Church.  I see the constant errors in my parish, the ineffectiveness of our CCD programs, the lack of focus on adult formation, the shuffling people through the sacraments without getting to the heart of the faith.  The sheepishness about actually proclaiming the gospel for fear people might reject it rather than allowing the Word of God (Christ) to act as a two edged sword.


I'm Catholic though because I am here to follow Christ.  I'm here to receive the Eucharist and the 7 sacraments and if anything the Church had done right.  I am obedient even when it means being run through the racks of unnecessary procedures because I know this is the authority Christ established.  I certainly will not refuse to go through what I need to go through to get married in the Catholic Church.  And if anything my hunger for the Traditional Latin Mass is because it is so reverant before God.  It draws me closer to Christ and deeper into prayer than a Novos Ordo does.  Its had thousands of years of perfecting.


Not saying a Novos Ordo can't be done right.  My fiance' has been to a number of very reverent novos Ordo Masses, but they're often done by communities that also do very good Latin Masses. 


"Whoever rejects you rejects me.  And whoever rejects Me rejects the one who sent me." Lk 10:16


I will not confuse the issue of any Church scandals as arguments against the teaching authority of the Church, nor the validity of the sacraments.  In my eyes, the issues are unrelated.




 


 dearly loved one of Our Savior Brother,


 


 until the roman church stands ecumenical trial for each and every violation of  Our Brothers COMMANDED Law;  of Love as well as each willful breach of HIS DIRECT Teachings relating to "His Followers and the pre-requisites HE LEFT  for discipleship  ;  the on going standards for "Leadership and Follower ship " 


 


-then  that House is and will continue to be  WITHOUT Our Brothers sent  Comforter because its majustrium is a false one of self creation with documents of its own creation and WRITTEN IN INNOCENT ONES BLOOD!


 


 it  has been built NOT upon The Apostles Teaching because The Apostolic could NEVER teach of other then what Our Brother gave to them-His Way not there own way (s) .


 


 


all of The Good Our Brother left to us that  has been  made foul by constanteen and the rest of the church (s)  self servants words and deeds.


 


they ALL- each and ever one of them   MUST be brought into the light and all the poison fruit of that- those  trees  must go into The Fire.


 


once that NEEDED WORK  begins unity UNDER Our Savior Brother Banner-


 


" You that will to Follow Me  MUST Love one another as I Love you"


 


can and shall restart and His House will become REBORN as His Gift of Our Comforter returns anew .


 


if  this needed ecumenical house cleaning and reunion dose not begin soon Our Father Judgment will  continue to be poured  upon it- because IT has turned its back on Our Brother - NOT the other way around.


 


 but you can trust  Our Brothers Love will still be in the hearts of many- christian and non- christian alike - because of The Truth of Our Loving and Faithful  Master of His Perfect Love is The Brightest Light in The Universe- even the blind can see it and Him.


 


thanks for your post-i used some of your last one as the bases from today journal entry - check it out- it may be helpful to you on your spiritual journey.


 


if you like please feel free to print it our and give it to ANY priest you feel is "good" for his view and response.


 


 


peace and good and tons o'love


 


>o


 


ps Our Mother NEVER used the word jesus when She called Him to table- Yash'wa is His Name- too bad the falling church "wills"   to MISTEACH His Holy Name- i wound why that is?

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2009 - 11:06AM #36
Peter_d_roman
Posts: 5,999

Apr 24, 2009 -- 10:25PM, Future Catholic Priest wrote:


Peter:                                                                                                                                                            


  I have found in my Bibles that talk about "Melchizedek". It first mentions his name in Hebrews 5:6, but you might want to read the verses above, beforehand. In one Bible version that I like to use (NIV; a Protestant Bible version) says that Melchizedek was a priest and king of early Salem (now called Jerusalem) and Jesus was said to be a priest like him. In the Catholic Bible that I have talks more about "Mel" in Hebrews 7. The title of chapter 7 it is called "Melchizedek, a Type of Christ". However in the Protestant Bible it is just called "Melchizedek the Priest" and later a sub-title for the second half of the chapter which is called, "Jesus Like Melchizedek".  Now back to the Catholic Bible, it talks about how Mel's name is used in the Mass during the Eucharist: (from the Sacramentary) "Look with favor on these offerings and accept them as once you accepted the gifts of your servant Abel, the sacrifice of Abraham, our father in faith, and the bread and wine offered by your priest Melchizedek." The Masses I go to never has this line so my guess is that it was omitted during the Mass revisions that came from Vatican II in the 1960's. The quote I written above is from the first Eucharistic prayer in the Catholic Mass. In the book of Genesis, after Abraham had successfully conquered the enemies of his nephew, Lot;Melchizedek offers a sacrifice of bread and wine to God on Abraham's behalf (Genesis 14:17-20). Due to this, Mel becomes Abe's priest. Early Christians saw parallels to Jesus in the story of Mel and that Mel's name means "king of righteousness." Thus Mel's life came to be viewed as an early but incomplete example of Jesus' high priesthood.


Today the Catholic priesthood reenacts the offering of bread and wine to God like Mel, BUT, it is done in the remembrance's of Our Savior Brother's sacrifice on the cross as He had His Last Supper with His disciples during the Passover holiday where bread and wine has some importance. Jesus offered the bread and wine to His Father and said that it was His Body and Blood and "do this in remembrance of Me." So I guess your right, the Catholic priest is like Mel who offers the bread and wine to Yash'wa-Jesus Christ to bless it as it represents Him.   Mel's offering was like Communion but not exactly. Jesus-Yash'wa is indeed the High Priest. Mel was never a high priest nor any of the Catholic clergy (including the pope) are called a high priest because that is Christ's title and His alone!


I hope this helps and clears up any confusion. BTW the Catholic priesthood works for Christ's high priesthood. It is like in the Old Testament; there was one high priest and many regular priests. So Christ is the high priest and there are regular priests who serve Him. That's how it parallels the ancient Jewish traditions of leadership and clergy when Christ was on earth.  




 


fcp


 


i did some praying on this and what i found on my heart is this-


 


-" mal "in the latin means BAD.- if this and all informatory found in the bile were truly from God Then all would be exactly the same- the fact they differing vertions differ as  they do are says to me  the bible  is not from Our Father.


- Our Savior Brother did not leave us a "priesthood"- the roman church came up with that one-


Our Brother gave "all humanity" of freedom from the events of the garden,


He said all that wills to Love as He Loves are welcome into His Fathers House and He said all that The Father allows and the wills to "Follow Him May follow His Way of Love and Faith.


 


again follow your heart in all things- im just saying what i found on mine.


 


peace and good and tons o'love


 


>o


 


 


 


 


 

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2009 - 11:22PM #37
Future Catholic Priest
Posts: 108

True, but He did give us a shepherd to lead the Church. After all he did say to St. Peter the Apostle: "Feed My sheep and care for My flock" which was what the risen Lord asked Peter to lead. And during His ministry, Jesus told Simon that his name would be changed to Peter "the Rock and upon that rock I will build My Church." In the Pauline letters, Paul talks about the churches being lead by a bishop and a deacon who assisted him. In may Bible versions it says that there were presbyters who lead the church under a bishop yet higher than a deacon. Today presbyters are like priests in the priesthood of Christ in a sense but not really.

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2009 - 1:49PM #38
Peter_d_roman
Posts: 5,999

Apr 26, 2009 -- 11:22PM, Future Catholic Priest wrote:


True, but He did give us a shepherd to lead the Church. After all he did say to St. Peter the Apostle: "Feed My sheep and care for My flock" which was what the risen Lord asked Peter to lead. And during His ministry, Jesus told Simon that his name would be changed to Peter "the Rock and upon that rock I will build My Church." In the Pauline letters, Paul talks about the churches being lead by a bishop and a deacon who assisted him. In may Bible versions it says that there were presbyters who lead the church under a bishop yet higher than a deacon. Today presbyters are like priests in the priesthood of Christ in a sense but not really.




 


Yes Our Savior Brother did as you said He did-


in His Mighty Love for us He gave us His House- His Church and its True leadership built upon His Rock- peter the rock- because peter said the correct answer to His Question- who is it that the people say that I Am - and who is is that you say I Am?"


 


" You are The Messiah- The Son of Our Mighty - Our Only God".


 


but The House that  He left to us and for us was attacked from within early in its foundation setting and it is now nearly fallen-


 


it has been falling from before the time francis from assisi was tasked by Our Savior Brother to


 


" francis wont  you  rebuild MY HOUSE- because as you can see it is fallen into ruin".


 


from the time peter the rock "allowed the wolf in disipals clothing" into teaching leadership His Houses Foundation begin to be compromised by spreading there own teaching over The Teaching s Our Brother gave them to give to all that would hear it made its TRUTHFUL foundation worse and worse.


 


Our Redeemer Yash'wa told us " all that would  WILL to follow Him - first MUST be allowed by Our Father then we would have to love as He Loves- every day- our best love we can give- just as He did then and continues to do now. but we His Followers are COMMAND to Bring His Love to all- no matter there faith or lack of faith.


 


as He told us all- " NO ONE CAME COME ONTO THE FATHER BUT BY ME". it really should be clear all that no one can come onto Yash'wa Our Savior Brother and Truest Friend  unless we follow His Established Way AND NONE OTHER.


 


the apostles of then were  as those  of today - when ever they come forth- are allowed by Our Savior to address  all maters of human life on earth EXCEPT THOSE GOD S SON HIMSELF SET DOWN!-those stand FOREVER- 


 


no one can be required by one fully human being to bend there free will. when it is done it is called evil and evil is never Holy.


 


 


so much for dogma and doctrine and strict church regulation and the unholy tools of torture or the fiery  stake- would nt you say?.


 


please recall Our Savior  SAID " every mountain and  ocean on earth shall pass but MY WORDS SHALL NEVER PASS AWAY!"


 


HIS TEACHING STAND FOREVER ! no one else s are as His are in Truth and Perfection and able to stand  FOREVER!


 


if you care to see were His House Keepers  ALLOWED  the gates of hell to enter and take it over  - look to constanteen 322 d and all that followed until 1228 ad- you will find what ever you seek- but you must want to find it and really "seek" it out-


 


 we all  would do well to take no ones word over or even too close to His Heart Placed Word .


 


you may say " God would never allow that to happen- but it was not God that allowed it- it was peoples free will and deep WANT that brought  these things into His Holy House of Love and Faith.


it  IS WANT and FEAR that keeps them in so many hearts - passed on and keep generation after generation- until THIS generation.


 


look at what God did to "The Temple in Jerusalem in 77 ad and understand that worse is unfolding in rome and everywhere else on GOD S  WORLD were the paper word and false apostolic doctrines are worshiped as they are- given places of HONOR OVER OUR BROTHERS OWN WAY of Love and Faith!.


 


i am happy to say that there is still time to repair His House- but im sorry to say that for very many is already too late


 


peace and good and tons o'love


 


>o

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